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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:30 pm 
Furious Typer

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:40 pm
Posts: 72
If you want lots of trees use the server tree command. This is a bit of an overview: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2865. I think it was intended to grow plants, ie you let it run for a while and the plants gradually get bigger. If you just want to cover a big area, make the final scale the same as the start scale, and it will gradually spread the plants out over the range. The seed point has to actually exist, be on the ground and be within the given treeline.


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:06 pm 
Furious Typer
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 186
Location: OSgrid, of course!
Jozee,

The biggest reason I prefer to not use the server tree command, is that, while you certainly can define a copse, you really have no other control over where the trees grow. Trees can sprout inside of buildings and in the middle of rivers and lakes, in a rather unnatural way.

If all you are building is a landscape, or playing with artificial life, then the trees command can provide hours of enjoyment, but to build out a space with a clear vision, trees are better as inworld scripted objects, that can be better defined and controlled.

The post you refer to is full of other reasons to use alternate methods for trees.

Shad


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:05 am 
Furious Typer

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 148
Shad MOrdre wrote:
Marlon,

Why not just take OAR and IAR backups from your v9.0 sims and plug them into a v8.0 replacement sim? This is the absolute BEST way to preserve regions. I have not ever even attempted to backup and restore the databases used for any of my sims. The reasons being that a 1 to 2 GB MySQL database really doesn't lend itself well to being backed up and restored. This is due to the large sizes of some assets.

I have very successfully used OAR, IAR and XML backups, for getting assets and inventory out of a sim, and into another. This is how I've performed all sim upgrades dating back to v0.6.7, which is WAY old at this point. I also don't upgrade to the latest greatest release of anything. That's just not a practical way of doing anything in life.

I just re-downloaded 0.8.3 and used the current OAR's for it.

Shad MOrdre wrote:
So tell me, is OSGrid driving your desire to run v9.0? Is running v9.0 a requirement to attaching a sim to OSGrid. In previous versions, while OSGrid ran the latest dev code, many sim were still connected to the grid with previous versions. Are you unable to attach a v8.0 sim to OSGrid?

In other versions, when OSGrid updated ROBUST, they used a newer interface which was incompatible with previous versions, and therefore updating to their current version was mandatory, so by updating to version 0.9 it also changed the DB fields too, making it incompatible with 0.8.

Shad MOrdre wrote:
In other discussions I've had with OSGrid residents, I was led to believe that Melanie Ts modifications to the database code were optional, not mandatory. I prefer using MySQL, realizing that any disk based storage options were not going to be the best, without using a better database structure, or a complete rethinking of the database code. But this does get beyond our current topic.

I've always used MySQL, innodb engine, it's faster than using file based SQLite, but since I updated my regions to v0.9, it also updated the DB fields too, making my DB v0.9 and incompatible with 0.8, so to revert back to 0.8, I had to create OAR's of 0.9 regions and create new DB records just for v0.8 regions.

Shad MOrdre wrote:
Rather than build in OSGrid, as I've suggested before, create a local, private grid or standalone. Use this to build out a given region, back it up to OAR, and then you can take a completed region anywhere, to any version, and the backend system becomes largely irrelevant.

Shad


If I use something like SoaS (Sim on a Stick) or a local region, then people I ask can't help with the building, that's why I create and build on an OSGrid connected region, so that I can invite others to help build.

So now, Knavesmire and Ocean Home var regions are running on v0.8.3 and even though 0.8.3 uses bulletsim physics, all my ocean vehicles will not work, as they are for ubOde on v0.9


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:28 am 
Furious Typer

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:40 pm
Posts: 72
Shad MOrdre wrote:
Jozee,

The biggest reason I prefer to not use the server tree command, is that, while you certainly can define a copse, you really have no other control over where the trees grow. Trees can sprout inside of buildings and in the middle of rivers and lakes, in a rather unnatural way.

If all you are building is a landscape, or playing with artificial life, then the trees command can provide hours of enjoyment, but to build out a space with a clear vision, trees are better as inworld scripted objects, that can be better defined and controlled.

The post you refer to is full of other reasons to use alternate methods for trees.

Shad


Not so sure about that. What you do is plant the trees first, then go back and clear them from where you want to build. Worked for Paul Bunyan right?


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:56 pm 
Furious Typer

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 148
Jozee

Sorry, but the tree module doesn't work for me, I set the xml file to how and where I want the trees, and used the tree command in a region console, and nothing happens, not anywhere, but it does work on a 256x256 single region, which shows the tree module does not work on a var region, this is the xml file I used:-

Code:
<Copse>
  <m_name>Oak</m_name>
  <m_frozen>false</m_frozen>
  <m_tree_type>Oak</m_tree_type>
  <m_tree_quantity>200</m_tree_quantity>
  <m_treeline_low>36</m_treeline_low>
  <m_treeline_high>46</m_treeline_high>
  <m_seed_point>
    <X>203</X>
    <Y>718</Y>
    <Z>0</Z>
  </m_seed_point>
  <m_range>120</m_range>
  <m_initial_scale>
    <X>4</X>
    <Y>4</Y>
    <Z>4</Z>
  </m_initial_scale>
  <m_maximum_scale>
    <X>25</X>
    <Y>25</Y>
    <Z>30</Z>
  </m_maximum_scale>
  <m_rate>
    <X>0.01</X>
    <Y>0.01</Y>
    <Z>0.01</Z>
  </m_rate>
</Copse>


and these are the steps I used in the region console (didn't need to change region as it's the only instance):-

Region (Knavesmire) # tree load trees/oak.xml
# tree active true
# tree plant Oak

Absolutely nothing happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:58 pm 
Furious Typer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 186
Location: OSgrid, of course!
Marlon,

Are those two regions connected to OSGrid?

Since you are hosting an OSGrid connected region, you could also run your own public grid. I'd use the Diva distro as a way to also provide a public website for users. But I digress.... ;)

OSGrid is the obvious choice. :)

Jozee,

I can certainly see using the server trees in regions where waiting for them to grow, one copse at a time, over a period of time, for those who can actually grow trees, for those who may have the server resources, for those who have a design for them.... It is a very fun module to play with, and I am glad that trees are available.

It simply doesn't fit every scenario. I, for one, really don't want to waste precious playtime, errhmm,... design time looking for stray trees in a 1sqkm build, or a 4sqkm build, or even a single region.

Besides, in most places I see these days, the default trees that are available have been traded in for better looking mesh varieties anyway. ;)

If I had the time to delve into the code, I'd like to see many enhancements... (ecosystems, randomly generated terrain, true mesh terrain that is inworld editable, better terrain texturing) ...to name a few.

Shad


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:24 pm 
Furious Typer

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 148
Shad

Both regions , Knavesmire and Ocean Home, are running on my home blade server under OpenSuse, connected to OSGrid using their pre-configured OSGrid download from their website, I don't need to edit any of the url settings in any of the ini's except Regions.ini where I use a hostname to connect to my server, I only change the listener ports for multiple instances, delete scripts on startup I set to false, insert my vivox setting and the threat level for OS functions in OpenSim.ini and the DB connectors in GridCommon.ini, everything else is default.

Now that I have Knavesmire running on v0.8.3 you're still welcome to drop in and contribute your bits to it if you want, currently, it's mostly in need of village layouts, houses, market place, work places, ie fisheries, carpenters hut, etc etc, the trees I can add later depending o the arrangements of the villages and towns, but there is a huge box prim to the north, hopefully someone will be making a cave there, and surrounded by wood land.


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:15 am 
Furious Typer

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:40 pm
Posts: 72
Marlon Wulluf wrote:
Jozee

Sorry, but the tree module doesn't work for me, I set the xml file to how and where I want the trees, and used the tree command in a region console, and nothing happens, not anywhere, but it does work on a 256x256 single region, which shows the tree module does not work on a var region, this is the xml file I used:-

Code:
<Copse>
  <m_name>Oak</m_name>
  <m_frozen>false</m_frozen>
  <m_tree_type>Oak</m_tree_type>
  <m_tree_quantity>200</m_tree_quantity>
  <m_treeline_low>36</m_treeline_low>
  <m_treeline_high>46</m_treeline_high>
  <m_seed_point>
    <X>203</X>
    <Y>718</Y>
    <Z>0</Z>
  </m_seed_point>
  <m_range>120</m_range>
  <m_initial_scale>
    <X>4</X>
    <Y>4</Y>
    <Z>4</Z>
  </m_initial_scale>
  <m_maximum_scale>
    <X>25</X>
    <Y>25</Y>
    <Z>30</Z>
  </m_maximum_scale>
  <m_rate>
    <X>0.01</X>
    <Y>0.01</Y>
    <Z>0.01</Z>
  </m_rate>
</Copse>


and these are the steps I used in the region console (didn't need to change region as it's the only instance):-

Region (Knavesmire) # tree load trees/oak.xml
# tree active true
# tree plant Oak

Absolutely nothing happens.


The seed point has to actually exist on the sim so z=0 is no good. I stand on where I want the trees to start and note the co-ordinates. And it has to be within the treeline range.

The trees are kind of funky alright, but anything is better than bare virtual dirt. I like the really big vars, starting at 8x8, and that is a lot of dirt to cover even if you sink most of it. The tree shapes are buried in the distro somewhere, so it would probably be possible to replace them with something prettier.


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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:04 am 
Furious Typer

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 148
Jozee

From what people have been saying about the copse xml file, z has to be 0 otherwise only 1 tree will be planted, quote from Shaun Emerald on the opensim wiki page "The z value for the seed point is not ignored, but MUST be set to zero. If it is non-zero, you get just one tree that grows to maturity and then stops. That's it.".

The x and y do exist as the co-ordinates of the first tree to be planted in the var region (I manually planted an oak tree and made a note of it's x and y co-ordinates), but I tried it on a single 256x256 specifying just a small area as x=100, y=100, z=0, quantity = 10, treeline_max = 21, treeline_min = 21, and range = 5, and it worked 10 trees spawned, but try it on a var region with the x and y outside 256, then it doesn't work at all


Last edited by Marlon Wulluf on Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Terraformer's help requested for a 4x4 var-region
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:06 am 
Furious Typer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 186
Location: OSgrid, of course!
Jozee,

You might want to read the post you referenced earlier.

WhiteStar Magic clearly states that the z value in m_seed_point MUST be zero. He goes on to state that the tree module is buggy and that it doesn't work on mega regions. These posts are from 5 years ago, covering much earlier versions.

I am willing to bet that the code updates that gave us var regions probably suffers the same issues as mega regions did. Even still, filling a space with trees that appear to be randomly placed can still be done with copy/paste, and a little firing of a few brain cells.

However, a space as large as 64sq km, the 8x8 varregion, filled with trees from the tree module, would certainly crash most viewers. A single region filled with trees can tax most servers.

A scripted solution could also be implemented here, that would probably work better. You can define the area for growing, and a script can be told to avoid buildings and water as needed.


As for where the trees are, they are in the distro, hard coded like all library assets. The .XML files existed somewhere out there, I have a copy of them. You can also plant trees straight off the build menu as well.

Shad


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