Are griefers mentally ill? Psychiatrist talks about the Patriotic Nigras and other griefers.
It's sometimes an advantage to have a psychiatrist in the family. While they can be complicated to have around
it sometimes is very helpful if you have a question about human behavior which you don't understand. This was the case with griefing which I was exposed to for the first time in OSGrid, there have been frequent attacks by the troll-group "Patriotic Nigras".
I began to wonder about people who would install photographs of skinned animal corpses with smashed in skulls. As a vegan animal rights activist I've gone into the death factories to rescue animals in Real Life, so the images don't distress me, in fact, some of them look like documentation material I've done myself going inside there. For me, publishing these very extreme images crossed a clear line that went far beyond any attention gaming, so I decided to interview my uncle Maximilian who has been a clinical psychiatrist for more than 15 years. To internationalize it, I translated it into English, the actual interview was held in German. To protect my uncles privacy, I chose to anonymize his identity. I've also asked him to avoid any clinical definitions if possible since this interview is aimed at a non-expert audience. It's copylefted, so please feel free to share it to anyone without modification to reach as many people as you wish on your blogs so.
Axaes: First of all thank you so much Maximilian for taking your limited time and help me out with my silly little project.
Maximilian: Well, this is not at all silly, antisocial behavior has some serious issues underneath, besides, everyone is scared of psychiatrists so we don't get to be interviewed that frequently (smiles). I also enjoy that I'm not the only one in our clan who has an interest in human behavior, apparently.
Axaes: When I, as a preparation for this interview explained to you how Virtual Worlds function and so on, you referred to these kids as "attention gamers". What do you mean by that?
Maximilian: It's not necessary to refer to them as kids. While many of them are probably around 15, the onset of puberty, others are likely above 18 and hence have the legal status of adults in many countries. Attention gaming because everything they do is aimed to attract attention to themselves, negative attention.
Axaes: Before we talk about negative attention, I want to know what the importance of attention is in general.
Maximilian: As social animals humans rely on paying attention to be able to communicate and to function as a group. Without attention it wouldn't make any sense for you to have this interview with me, because we'd be like trees, not having evolved to be able to communicate. But the willful act of attracting attention for oneself is part of sexuality in a broader sense and spreading your genes.
Axaes: Excuse me?
Maximilian: Yes, by "accumulating" more attention than others of same group normally receives in a competitive environment, the attention requester tries to enhance his own social status above the other and therefore increases his chances to mate. Advertising yourself is an essential part of mating behavior, everyone does it either consciously or instinctively. It's not only men traditionally who work hard to achieve both respect and money, women too add things to the basic frame so to say in order to enhance what they've got. Make up is the Porsche of women for example. Of course these days things shift, women strive to own Porsche, or solar panels as well, and men are an important factor in the cosmetic industry, but at the core of things the behavior stays the same. More attention towards you increases your status. We live in an attention economy. With the complexification of society, this is not only true for spreading your own genes, status itself has become a fetish, people want to be powerful and influential just by spreading their ideas and concepts. It's part of culture. Culture can be referred to as the sex of concepts.
Axaes: Wow. I should interview you more often (grinning). So we are all little attention whores in a way and this is completely normal.
Maximilian: I wouldn't have used the word whore, as some people may be offended being associated with prostitution, rightfully or wrongfully offended is not part of this interview, but yes. It is perfectly normal.
Axaes: What about negative attention though? People who attract negative attention to themselves?
Maximilian: That's where the problems begin. Harassment is a violent form of trying to do the same thing that normal people do, which is to increase ones status above the other, but not by the factor appreciation, but the factor fear. Therefore it can never be an elegant or skillful way to adding value to yourself. Putting others down, annoying them or even harming others emotionally or physically is the most primitive attempt to rise above them, no matter what level of technical skill is used to achieve this. It finds only legit expression in sports, boxing for example or wherever there are two willing parties. If one one party isn't willing, it's perverse.
Axaes: Why would someone resort seeking to attract negative attention by being a Bully?
Maximilian: Well sometimes, negative attention is only a means to something else. If an affected person, I say affected because Bullies are themselves their own first victim, a victim of their mindset because that mindset seals them off from Real Life of course, appreciation, kindness, warmth and love. It's funny griefers would accuse users of Virtual Worlds of wasting their Real Life when that mindset is doing exactly that. If such an affected person has a low self-esteem or depression, which is typical for antisocial behavior, he suffers from a chronic stress level. Now, normally, criticizing someone is a positive way to harass someone, so to say, and is directly linked to the reward center of the brain. We've evolved to benefit from critique as a group, so criticizing others gives us a little tickle of feeling good. When we criticize someone, we usually think that we've done something good because the reward center automatically links this with the vague feeling of good, which releases happy hormones into the blood. I'm oversimplifying here, in keeping with your audience. But if someone generally feels bad, has low self-esteem or is suffering from depression, criticizing others can be perverted into something which the Bully must do to feel better.
Axaes: Griefing is an addiction?
Maximilian: Most certainly, yes. It has all the mechanisms, just that it is directed towards others and not towards oneself. Using drugs like alcohol or heroin is another method "to feel better", at least temporally, but anything really which is done to reduce the chronic stress level can become a full blown addiction. The reward center is in a very old part of our brain, and few are willing to admit that the old part of the brain reigns supreme _through_ many areas of consciousness. The affected must always do new attacks, because the release and joy from one attack doesn't last very long of course, the pressure is building up after a while again, and just like a heroin addict a griefer will always look for the next shot. Not only that, the shots have to be given in higher doses and faster frequency. It's also linked to testosterone, especially males often create or externalize stress as a mechanism to control and dominate a group. And if we have no group to control and dominate, we look for one. It's pretty much stone age stuff we're dealing with here, possibly even more primitive.
Axaes: Very interesting. But why would a griefer choose the route of negative attention in the first place? Some of them express artistic skills and it often takes some detailed technical understanding to launch attacks in technical environments.
Maximilian: Most likely a lack of warmth and positive attention as younger children. Children must have positive attention, not too much and not too little, if they don't get it, that greatly damages them and they do not know positive attention exists, yet they feel they must have some form of attention. Often the only attention they've learned about was negative attention, or no attention and this then is repeated in a looping pattern of behavior. To be emotionally neglected as a child is very traumatizing for the child, it can fix behavior in very negative means for a very long time, sometimes for life. But initially the child is very neutral, it tries out different things and of course, crying will most often get an adult to be attentive. Griefing can be seen as a form of crying for attention quite literally, it's a direct extension of a very basic human survival strategy. As with many pathologies, something got broken in the young years of the person.
Axaes: And when you say the dose has to be increased, can griefers become dangerous?
Maximilian: Posting pictures as extreme as mutilations is a very shrill warning sign that someone is about to derail completely. The images you've showed me are so drastic of nature that I would be very concerned if I was living with someone who published this. It has strongly sadistic elements of reasoning, and really anything can be expected from such a person.
Axaes: Stalking, serial killing?
Maximilian: One has to be careful with such assessments, however, serial killing is just on the wide other end of griefing which starts with mild harassment on the light side. It's wise though for society to keep an eye on a griefer.
Axaes: So would someone who posts pictures of mutilations need therapy? I've showed pictures of mutilated animals in demonstrations for animal rights...
Maximilian: Motivation and context matters. Someone who protests against such mutilations showing such images to the people on the street, who are responsible for them follows a healthy motive. Someone who just harasses people to attract negative attention for himself in order to feed an emotional addiction, and all addictions are emotional, is not a very healthy motive. But I would say that actually everyone who griefs needs therapy, not only the most extreme griefers. These "children" need to learn that there are other ways of crying then crying, a knowledge they are lacking.
Axaes: I want to talk to you about the black theme the Patriotic Nigras use, what is behind this, given that very few of them are likely actually African Americans.
Maximilian: Well, first of all it's a very interesting phenomenon, from my perspective as a psychiatrist, that griefers would form groups and attempt to dress the group with a cultural decoration. It's a consequence of the internet I think, although protest subcultures are a very normal aspect of growing up and forming your identity.
Griefers know of course that they are behaving ethically wrong, so by appropriating and colonizing the Black fight for civil liberties in the U.S., they want to place themselves into a victim position of oppression and use this as a moral justification for griefing. Ironically this is a projection, as they are actually oppressed, the neglect or abuse they experienced as children or are still experiencing is synonymous with the neglect and and abuse African Americans have and are experiencing with the general population in hostile environments. But imagine how absurd it was if Black Americans tried to justify harassment by the experience of oppression. Civil disobedience is something other from harassing others. That is why Rosa Parks sat in the front of the bus, she didn't start putting broken glass on the seats for Whites and found that funny. Or Rap and HipHop evolved as a cultural protest answer to glorify the lifestyle of young Black men mainly. This enriched human culture, griefing soils human culture.
Axaes: Patriotic Nigras accuse Furries of being fetishists and call them furfags, is that another irony then considering they themselves are putting on a Black dress?
Maximilian: Very well observed! (smiles) Yes, this is a classic projection. The Patriotic Nigras are of course using the Black outfit so to say for their self-stimulation of griefing, this is the essence of paraphilia. In fact, the Patriotic Nigras are much more so actual fetishists than the Furries, because the Furries are engaging in healthy experiments with role play, nothing can be said against that.
Axaes: What about the furry-hatred itself. I've made satirical remarks on it in a comic, some people believed I was furry-bashing but then there is no guarantee that people get satire. What is behind people who actually hate Furries?
Maximilian: This is a little awkward for me to address because I'm not involved in Virtual Worlds, I always have to think around the corner so to say. Furries for me initially are images on a computer screen, like the one of an adorable mouse avatar you sent me. However, conceptually, people with low self-esteem and social status often seek out someone who is different from their own group to put them down to enhance their own selves. This is just griefing all over again. Discrimination is griefing, it's no surprise that a group of griefers would identify a group and employ racist methods of exclusion and outcasting. This is fairly random. If there were no Furries in virtual worlds, then female characters would be derided or any other avatar group. Since people who do harass others have no knowledge of how to positively enhance their view of themselves, they resort to putting others below themselves. They are not building a box to stand on to be taller, they are digging holes for others so they can self-delude that they are higher. The jury is still out whether aggressive flashing of things society deems positive, like wealth is also a form of griefing if the audience of that message is not wealthy, and we're all audiences these days. But that is another issue.
Axaes: So given all you said, it would not be an insult to call a Patriotic Nigra or any other griefer an obsessive, delusional, fetishistic sadist who is acting out some childhood traumata?
Maximilian: No, not really. The question would be why frame it like that? It would be much more efficient to make sure the griefers read this interview for example, therefore being confronted with a little more reasoning around such symbolistic definitions. They clearly have problems, some of them more so than others, but they deserve a golden shot of truth about their own psychological dynamics, so they can consciously decide what to do about it. Some of them would instantly feel ashamed for recognizing themselves in this text, of course, such "instant healings" are rare, most likely a griefer reading this interview would react with denial or even accusing you of dreaming up this interview, questioning my existence.
Axaes: When the time comes, will you step forward and defend me against such discrediting attempts?
Maximilian: No, because it really is irrelevant, you can safely ignore all attempts to question you and your credibility, giving your history of teasing people both in our family and on the internet you don't have much credibility to begin with. I'm just kidding. Your person is not the important factor, what's more important is what is being said and to reach out to both the griefers and their victims. Of course griefers will respond with emotional shock being taken seriously for the first time perhaps, and then to have their motives exposed in such a manner. But, everything we learn changes our neurology forever the moment we learn it. No denial is so strong that the seed of doubt about what you're doing can be repressed indefinitely. It's there and it will grow. And for some faster then for others, the fun part of griefing will start fading away because the impulses behind it have been exposed as primitive reflexes. Once the glory is dead, it fails to do its actual job: interrupting the inner misery which leads to griefing.
Axaes: Is there an estimate on the outlook for the general griefer? Who are they anyway.
Maximilian: From what I know I think it's save to speculate that the average griefer is between 15 and 25 years old, male, white, not very popular if not lonely, of low income household, and no way or knowledge to express the talents that are there, if any. A griefer will lead a very average, unassuming life, withdrawn, will have difficulty establishing healthy relationships both professionally and personally. Some will get a grip, some will get worse, but many will basically drown in their isolation, fatally thinking griefing is doing something, when really it's just self-sustaining, addictive loop which sucks off energy that could be invested much better.
Axaes: Yes, uncle, us non-academic folks just call that a loser. Until they, well, grow up or get a grip, what should be done?
Maximilian: The internet is not a legal vacuum, it's not OK to abuse your freedom by abusing others, so in some cases it will be necessary to inform the authorities, collect evidence, some griefers will use the gathered knowledge of concealing their identity to wander off into criminal activities, become phishers and spammers, so this an environment where preventative measures can be taken, even eventually infiltrate their groups by police or computer experts working for police. For operators of Virtual Worlds this is all just very good practice in fine tuning their security skills, the griefers are helping them to increase these skills with each attack. Schools charge a lot of money do teach you that. Users of so called "grids" should be enabled to have an easy back up ability as a standard procedure if they don't have administrative access to the servers. Otherwise ignore the griefers like a rainy day. You can use a rainy day by either staring outside and hating the weather, or you can grab a nice book and enjoy yourself. If you walk away from a griefer _you_ score, and in terms of vandalism you employ the technical tools you have to prevent it. Without attention, a griefer will shrivel and die, you should only give them attention if you find it amusing to have them around, making them your Clowns.
Axaes: Who wants to have Clowns this boring?
Maximilian: Well griefers don't know they are boring, they think of themselves as witty stars, it's the narcissistic rush which comes with the act, that moment of greatness and dominance that is so essential, especially to the young male. Out of kindness, it would be OK to not let them know that they are, as you say boring Clowns.
Axaes: Well, sometimes truth is more important than kindness. My plan was to transfer this interview into writing as it was spoken, and I want to thank you very much for taking the time to explain to us, some of the motives and personalities behind griefing.
Maximilian: Nothing to thank me for, it was very interesting for me as well, I now know what Furries are. (laughs)
Axaes: Just out of curiosity, how much would it have cost to have you evaluate the issue as an expert?
Maximilian: Roughly 2000 to 3500 Euro, depending who contracts (smiles).
Axaes: Nice.
Maximilian: Well, I heard you know some Linux?
Axaes: ohoh
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