Change font size
It is currently Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:24 pm

Forum rules


{L_IMAGE}



Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 15 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:50 pm 
Furious Typer

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 69
From Alan's last post it seems likely that OSG will be going back on line with an empty data base. If that is the case, I have several questions.

1. What will be the policy about maintaining positions on the grid map. If it was mine before, how do I reclaim it. Or will it be first there first served?

2 The old large data base was built up over 7 or 8 years. It likely that returning avatars might try to upload half of that in the first 24 hours after the grid goes back on line. Are the servers up to this? Metropolis got a bit wobbly with this amount of data over a much longer period of time. If not, is there a plan for a more orderly return?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:22 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:09 pm
Posts: 435
Lucy,

Those are very good questions. And sorry but I don't have all the answers yet, but will. But first we have not said that the recovery has been stopped. That is continuing until such time as it can be determined it will not succeed. But in the meantime, instead of just waiting for the results, it was decided to proceed with getting replacement servers and set up a new better backup system for either case, so that when a final determination is made there will be no further delay. Regardless of which way things go the new equipment will be needed for us to go forward.

And as I said you do make a very good point about the problems of basically starting over. I have not yet discussed this with anyone, but I would think that we should set up a system where everyone can choose a certain time period to upload their IAR files and/or OAR files. I will pass your questions on to those that would have a better knowledge of how we can proceed with things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:48 pm 
Furious Typer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 184
Location: OSgrid, of course!
albertlr,

In response to your comments as well as Lucy's, I would like to suggest and recommend the following for an orderly process, if we need to start over.

I think that in all fairness to those who have worked hard to maintain regions on osgrid, that those folks should be notified first, either in order of age, (ie length of time on osgrid), or in order of grid coordinates. In either case, the members should be allowed to connect only at the grid coordinates that they were actively using on the day the grid went down. Allowing region owners to be notified first allows them to load their oars without the possible overload on the servers that Lucy mentions, as well as giving them time to claim their coordinates. Give the region owners a specified time frame, from the time the grid comes back up, to claim their coordinates and get regions online and restored.

If, for any reason, a region host does not return to osgrid within the specified time frame, their coordinates should be considered forfeit, and be made available. If they had "preferred" coordinates that are left unclaimed, then a fair system should be put in place for users wanting to claim them. There is no reason otherwise that the admins should reserve any coordinates than those that were in use on the day/week/month the grid went dark.

Disclaimer: I host no regions on osgrid and therefore have no preference for coordinates.

On the issue of Landlords and tenants, I would suggest letting the landlords go with the region owners, and asking tenants to wait at least a week, to give the region hosts time to ensure both connectivity, and the uploading of oars.

After giving region owners a week, I would welcome back the general population. Since users like myself cannot upload oars and iars without a console, there should be little overload of the servers. And while I may upload things through the viewer, that isn't anything like uploading an archive, where the console slams the asset and inventory servers. If need be, invite general pop users back by age in a staggered time frame.

This seems fair. If we can arrange some advance notice, ie, before the grid comes up, or starting now, we can prepare a plan for "The Return of the Osgrid". :shock: Let's get a list of the regions that were running the week of the crash, and get them prepared to come back. Let's get everyone thinking along the "staggered return" method. I do believe that the burden Metropolis has felt by providing some a temp base should not be unnoticed. The shear influx of Osgridders has burdened their systems, and so there is no reason to think that wouldn't happen here.

If we start thinking about this now, it gives folks a chance to voice concerns.

And let's put FULL disclaimers on any notifications.

1. Users, backup your stuff!!! Their is no reason not to use the tools available in the viewers. Also, perhaps one can find a friendly region host who may do this for you, and send you the IAR file.

2. The policy above is to mitigate server overload, to provide fairness to region hosts, and to make the entire process of bringing osgrid back to life a whole lot more bearable.

Shad MOrdre


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:51 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:17 pm
Posts: 2
It will be nice to see OSGrid back on its servers again, as its absence has duely been noted across the metaverses. That being said, as a user I recall "this is a TEST grid", BUT, let us not, in our haste to return to life as we rezzed it, test the servers capacities violently! I urge common sense....

Avatars, if the grid is to be truly blank on restart, many will be in a hurry to reload their personal best for their avatar. I URGE caution! Its ok to be a cloud, red declouder avatar, ruth, or whatever as a BASELINE of the grid goes back up. Let the guys fix, restore, stabilize, before we flood them with our personal assets.

Regions.....
The long standing policies have been a "first come, first served" approach to region placement. in Theory, if you had a region when everything went poof, unless someone really goes nuts, you should be able to get that same spot back... if not, its just as easy to pick a new location, and be back up. Anyone considering a "land grab" opportunity would surely not be met favorably by the community.... This is indeed a time to "be excellent to one another". I'd also urge, let the team get the core regions back up, verified, and stable. restored from OAR's if possible. It wasnt built in a day, and no doubt, it cant be reloaded in one day either.

I'm no admin for OSgrid, just another user, and in no way are my words official, just more internet chatter :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:46 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:08 pm
Posts: 32
Quick question: "1. Users, backup your stuff!!! Their is no reason not to use the tools available in the viewers. Also, perhaps one can find a friendly region host who may do this for you, and send you the IAR file.".

If I do an IAR backup on OSGRID now, from the console, will it work? I had assumed not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:02 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 2:09 pm
Posts: 219
Location: Netherlands
Inqy Wei {L_WROTE}:
Quick question: "1. Users, backup your stuff!!! Their is no reason not to use the tools available in the viewers. Also, perhaps one can find a friendly region host who may do this for you, and send you the IAR file.".

If I do an IAR backup on OSGRID now, from the console, will it work? I had assumed not.


Nope, the server holding the assets (read: your inventory) is the one that is broken. So you will not get your console, it will crash at boot, as it can't connect. Unfortunately, if you don´t already have an IAR, (and in case the data cannot be recovered), you will have a default `blank`inventory.

And as for a 3rd party to create your backups, you can only ask people you trust with your password (region hosts are generally paid for their services, so that would be a reasonable choice, although i wouldn't recommend to ask "just anyone" that runs a region).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:08 pm
Posts: 32
Yes. That's what I thought. Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:37 pm 
Furious Typer

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 86
Location: Texas
If you do not currently have an IAR backup there is currently no way to recover your inventory from OSGrid, and if they are unable to restore the data you will basically be starting from scratch. The only way around that is if you have your assets backed up somewhere, i.e. you exported them at sometime in the past, or you have copies of everything you ever imported from someplace else.

If you do have a collection of "stuff", you can find a friendly grid or standalone owner who will let you upload everything and then create an IAR for you. This will NOT compromise your OSGrid password, as you would have to create a new avatar on the standalone, then upload your stuff. Your password on the standalone would be the only thing "compromised", and frankly whoever owns the grid doesn't actually need it anyway, as they have total control over their own sim and therefore all the avatars registered on it, and it is even possible to patch OpenSim so the owner doesn't need a password for IARs anyway.

So, assume you have such a collection of stuff, things you have downloaded from some site or exported using your viewer at some time. You would pick a friendly grid, say mine, and create an avatar. You log in under that avatar, go to the sandbox, and import all your stuff, taking it back to your inventory.

Once you have everything uploaded and in your inventory you message me, I create an IAR from your inventory, and then either email it to you or upload it to Dropbox, Github, or some such place. When OSGrid comes back up, you connect your region and use your own console to load that IAR back to your OSGrid avatar.

If you do not have your own region, you'd have to ask me to upload the IAR for you to your OSGrid avatar once I have my own region reconnected. Here is where there is the potential for compromising your OSG password, since unless I patch the requirement for IAR passwords out I would need yours to load the IAR.

Note to self: patch out requirement for IAR passwords :) Honestly that change should have been made to the master code a long time ago, since it's honestly more of an inconvenience than a security measure.

Now honestly, there is pretty much no reason to do this if you do have such a collection of stuff. Simply wait for OSG to come back up, go to a sandbox, and upload there, recreating your inventory. The only reason to negotiate an IAR from someone is to save some time once the grid is back online, or if you are just impatient to get started restoring things.

What people should be more concerned about is working with someone to create an IAR AFTER the grid is back, to create a backup in case of future failures. Find someone with the IAR Password patch so you don't need to give them your password and ask them to make a backup for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:32 pm 
Furious Typer

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 53
Elisabeth Thorne {L_WROTE}:
Note to self: patch out requirement for IAR passwords :) Honestly that change should have been made to the master code a long time ago, since it's honestly more of an inconvenience than a security measure.

Really? You'd have no problem with *anyone anywhere* in OSG simply typing "save iar Elisabeth Thorne /* stuff_i_took_without_elisabeths_knowledge_or_permission.iar" in console? I know *I* certainly would (not to mention that it's a direct violation of intellectual property rights)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSG The Return, Some Question
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:08 pm 
Furious Typer

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 86
Location: Texas
Personally, no. But everything I make is free to copy, reuse, modify, mangle, or whatever you want to do with it :) If you'd like a copy of my IAR just ask, I'll send it to you :)

Protecting intellectual property is problematic at best on a grid where every region owner has access to god mode and the console. Can you be sure that every place you visit is honest enough to not copy your stuff? Do you know for sure that every region you visit hasn't already patched the IAR password checks out (it's extremely easy to do)?

No matter what you do, if you leave your home sim you are trusting that your destination abides by the social compact of intellectual property, and that the person controlling the region/grid/standalone you visit hasn't already bypassed the safeguards. The only way to make sure your things stay "safe" is to never leave home, because that is the only place you have control of permission checking and the simulator source code.

I personally prefer not to worry about it and share everything.

And now we are completely off topic :P


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 2   [ 15 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net