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 Post subject: Saturday Q&A for February 8th, 2020
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:09 pm
Posts: 497
[10:48] albertlr Landar: Hello Moto
[10:49] Moto.Sapa hello
[10:49] Moto.Sapa found a odd one when doing a clean install of firestorm
[10:49] albertlr Landar: greetings snakedance.
[10:49] snakedance moonwing: greetings :)
[10:49] albertlr Landar: oh
[10:49] Moto.Sapa there were files i could not remove i did not own them
[10:50] albertlr Landar: because of permission settings
[10:50] Moto.Sapa they came from second life gateway roll play
[10:50] albertlr Landar: hum ok
[10:50] Moto.Sapa what is it
[10:51] Moto.Sapa why did i have so many blank no named entered in inventory
[10:51] Moto.Sapa why was there people added to my parcel allow list with no name
[10:51] albertlr Landar: hum that may be a question for the FS people I am afraid
[10:52] Roland.Francis is Online
[10:52] Moto.Sapa why is there blank entry's on my visitor boards uuids cant be traced
[10:52] snakedance moonwing: ~** HELLO!! **~
[10:52] snakedance moonwing: moto
[10:52] Moto.Sapa its like a sub system with admin rights
[10:53] albertlr Landar: Never heard about these symptoms before.
[10:53] albertlr Landar: But I tried out the SceneGate viewer and its seems stable to me.
[10:53] albertlr Landar: much less cluttered than is the FS one.
[10:54] albertlr Landar: and it is based off FS I understand.
[10:54] Moto.Sapa ... y_roleplay
[10:54] albertlr Landar: Hello Jagga, welcome
[10:55] Jagga Meredith: hi
[10:55] albertlr Landar: Oh so that is the one running on Second Life then.
[10:55] Moto.Sapa ya
[10:55] George Equus is Online
[10:56] Moto.Sapa how is it getting in to my grid
[10:56] Foxx Bode: -*- HeLlO-*-
[10:56] snakedance moonwing: ~** HELLO!! **~
[10:56] snakedance moonwing: foxxyboo
[10:56] Foxx Bode: Snakems :)
[10:56] snakedance moonwing: ~** HELLO!! **~
[10:56] snakedance moonwing: jagga
[10:56] albertlr Landar: sorry don't keep up with whats going on SL these days I am afraid. So that will be definitely A questions to the FS people.
[10:56] Moto.Sapa did some one find a back door to opensim from sl
[10:57] albertlr Landar: Hello Foxx
[10:57] snakedance moonwing: there use o be an open door one time
[10:57] Moto.Sapa yes
[10:57] snakedance moonwing: you could hg from osg to sl and from sl to osg
[10:57] Moto.Sapa and a sl viewer with a hacked god mode to
[10:57] snakedance moonwing: but they closed that :P
[10:58] snakedance moonwing: ~** HELLO!! **~
[10:58] snakedance moonwing: george
[10:58] albertlr Landar: well it was not open for very long, once the lawyers got involved.
[10:58] snakedance moonwing: lol
[10:58] George Equus: Evening all
[10:58] Moto.Sapa i bet
[10:58] snakedance moonwing: oh you on phone
[10:58] snakedance moonwing: whoops wrong window
[10:58] albertlr Landar: greetings George
[10:59] snakedance moonwing: ~** HELLO!! **~
[10:59] snakedance moonwing: loco
[10:59] Loco Admin: Hello
[10:59] albertlr Landar: hello Loco
[10:59] Loco Admin: It's been a long time
[10:59] George Equus: Hi Loco
[10:59] Moto.Sapa i did see a chat that made no sense no name but the time and the statement of stay invisible but be ready
[11:00] Moto.Sapa its like sl is here watching
[11:01] snakedance moonwing: whats his face was here before
[11:01] snakedance moonwing: i cant remember his name
[11:01] snakedance moonwing: hold on i google him
[11:01] snakedance moonwing: ok
[11:01] snakedance moonwing: Philip Rosedale
[11:01] Loco Admin: hehe
[11:02] Jagga Meredith: who?
[11:02] snakedance moonwing: creator of sl
[11:02] albertlr Landar: Well he is not really involved with sl anymore I don't think.
[11:02] Jagga Meredith: ah
[11:02] Loco Admin: I'm sure he has better things to do now
[11:02] snakedance moonwing: no he left long ago
[11:02] albertlr Landar: was trying some other version of it.
[11:02] snakedance moonwing: but when he was involved with sl he was here
[11:02] snakedance moonwing: or at least in opensim
[11:02] albertlr Landar: oh yea.
[11:02] snakedance moonwing: not sure about osg itself
[11:02] albertlr Landar: I would not be surprised if he does not show up here once in a while.
[11:03] albertlr Landar: to see how things are progressing here.
[11:03] snakedance moonwing: and to hand over secretive code from sl? :P
[11:03] albertlr Landar: This after all was a branch of what he started.
[11:03] Loco Admin: I see that a LOT has changed in the opensimulator code-base since I was here in 2018
[11:04] Loco Admin: And I saw Ubit at LBSA earlier
[11:04] snakedance moonwing: yes it all thanks to me and only me, i am a super smart coder dev person :)
[11:04] albertlr Landar: well they are trying to remove old code which slows things down, and implement improvements where they can.
[11:04] albertlr Landar: Melaine donated a lot of improvements she had made on the code from her old grid.
[11:04] Loco Admin: I tried to merge the work I was doing and it got real messy
[11:05] snakedance moonwing: that was a joke btw i know nothing
[11:05] snakedance moonwing: :)
[11:05] albertlr Landar: Like the better Yengine for running scripts.
[11:05] Loco Admin: OSGrid is on now? is latest reported stable release
[11:06] snakedance moonwing: i looking at picture of that Philip Rosedale fellow
[11:06] snakedance moonwing: he looks like that guy from he cooking shows
[11:06] albertlr Landar: yea
[11:06] Loco Admin: And the documentation for installation and configuration seems out-of-date now
[11:06] snakedance moonwing: the one that's always yelling and red in the face
[11:06] Loco Admin: That's stopping people from jumping in, I hear
[11:06] snakedance moonwing: whats his name
[11:06] albertlr Landar: you can find pictures of those that help to start OSgrid on Wright Plaza main building.
[11:06] snakedance moonwing: imma have to google again
[11:06] snakedance moonwing: ok Gordon Ramsay
[11:06] snakedance moonwing: :P
[11:07] albertlr Landar: And some of them are still helping it as it ages.
[11:07] snakedance moonwing: everything old is new again :)
[11:08] snakedance moonwing: perhaps all the people whose departed will return with a renews vigor about the project :D
[11:08] snakedance moonwing: started*
[11:08] albertlr Landar: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5965
[11:08] Jagga Meredith: I saw lots of grey hair in the picture. are they still with us?
[11:08] Azi Az: Hi everyone :)))))
[11:08] George Equus: Hi Azi
[11:08] albertlr Landar: This is the chat from 2017 in which Nebadon visited us and talked about how OSgrid got started and those that were involved.
[11:08] snakedance moonwing: ~** HELLO!! **~
[11:08] snakedance moonwing: azi
[11:09] albertlr Landar: Hello Azi
[11:09] snakedance moonwing: nebadon is a man of mystery :)
[11:10] albertlr Landar: well he got involved in real world obligations I am afraid.
[11:10] Moto.Sapa is there a way to convert the uuid to a persons name and grid address with out them being here
[11:10] Loco Admin: hehe ... we all do
[11:10] albertlr Landar: Was involved in city designing in Sweden I believe.
[11:10] albertlr Landar: Was using opensim to help with that project.
[11:10] Jagga Meredith: kewl
[11:11] Moto.Sapa some one said they can do it in a sand box
[11:11] Loco Admin: Oh! That guy. I remember him. He used satellite imagery and topographic maps to do it
[11:11] albertlr Landar: Yea.
[11:11] albertlr Landar: You can see some of his builds on the Opensimulator Community Conference grids.
[11:12] albertlr Landar: They are open all year.
[11:12] albertlr Landar: Also I am hosting his Universal Campus sim here on OSgrid.
[11:13] albertlr Landar: just type Unicampus in the map search.
[11:13] govega sachertorte is Offline
[11:13] albertlr Landar: Its an excellent build. I converted it to a Var Region.
[11:13] albertlr Landar: But lots of prims.
[11:14] albertlr Landar: He build that for Universities and Schools to use in order to use Opensim for Educational purposes
[11:14] Loco Admin: Are there recommendations on max var region sizes yet? I noticed the dropped instead of increasing the limits
[11:15] albertlr Landar: 512 X 512 is probably the recommend size.
[11:15] snakedance moonwing: its old though :)
[11:15] albertlr Landar: Unless you have lots of water in it.
[11:16] Moto.Sapa dragon used to do ground raw files all sizes
[11:16] albertlr Landar: For boating the larger ones are no problem, its just if you have it filled with prims, it can really drag down the servers.
[11:16] Jagga Meredith: i've made my sim almost entirely water, with megaprims for pavement sitting on top. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
[11:16] albertlr Landar: Should not be a problem.
[11:16] snakedance moonwing: mega regions still have their pros imo :)
[11:17] albertlr Landar: I think some of the biggest problems is over use of mesh on avatars, thats why they are working on making it possible to use prims instead.
[11:17] albertlr Landar: on mesh avatars.
[11:18] Moto.Sapa i have a sim you might want to look at its a 2048 x 2048 of the grand canyon white water rafting ride
[11:18] Moto.Sapa takes a half a hour to go down river
[11:18] albertlr Landar: wow that sounds amazing.
[11:18] Loco Admin: I've been working on a US National Park scale model. So far, we have a rough outline of Cades Cove in the Great Smokey Mountains
[11:18] Moto.Sapa fps is still 75 for me
[11:18] albertlr Landar: And no boarder walls
[11:19] Jagga Meredith: I've got 12000 prims on a 3*3. getting some lag. Had a good talk with someone knowledgeable to said no prims on boundaries, everything possible should be phantom, watch for runaway scripts. Any other suggestions?
[11:19] Loco Admin: It's about 16384x8192
[11:19] Moto.Sapa no boarders
[11:19] Moto.Sapa ya run away scripts is a issue
[11:19] snakedance moonwing: phantom and lock what you can :)
[11:19] Azi Az: Big meshes with lots of verts makes big lag
[11:20] Moto.Sapa use local rot , ect limits the script to the region
[11:20] Jagga Meredith: ok
[11:20] snakedance moonwing: locking prism helps a lot as well as phantom if i remember
[11:20] snakedance moonwing: prims*
[11:20] Moto.Sapa i use local everything to set limits so no runaways
[11:20] Jagga Meredith: been doing that
[11:21] Loco Admin: If we break the problem down into server-side and client-side then there are separate answers to performance in each concern. OpenSimulator is the server-side.
[11:21] Moto.Sapa got inner tubes , kyacks, rubber chase boats, pontoon party boat, working on a 6 person rubber raft
[11:22] Jagga Meredith: my server admin's working on his end
[11:22] Loco Admin: Mesh complexity is purely the rendering on client. Yes?
[11:23] Loco Admin: script is server-side
[11:23] Jagga Meredith: my friend was telling the story of a mesh tree where 10 of them on the same grid would crash it
[11:23] albertlr Landar: BTW, if anyone would like to add their region on OSgrid to the search engine here is instructions on how to do it.
[11:23] albertlr Landar:
[11:24] albertlr Landar: And this is the destination guide:
[11:24] Jagga Meredith: useful
[11:25] Moto.Sapa loco wath for math sim should be square
[11:25] Jagga Meredith: ?
[11:26] snakedance moonwing: ty albert i have a look at that later :)
[11:26] Moto.Sapa set up a 8192 x 8192 all good till ground texture would noty catch up with movment
[11:26] Moto.Sapa but that is when we only had a raw file that was a 16 bit
[11:27] Moto.Sapa now its raw 32
[11:29] Loco Admin: On the lighter side, has anybody found a good blues club on the hypergrid yet? :)
[11:29] Jagga Meredith: one j ust opened
[11:29] Jagga Meredith: friends of mine
[11:30] Jagga Meredith: the speakeasy too
[11:30] Loco Admin: I heard somebody in LBSA talking about that, and THAT sounds like a fun place to hang out :)
[11:30] Jagga Meredith: Great Canadian Grid refugees
[11:31] Jagga Meredith: anybody want the LM?
[11:31] Loco Admin: *raises hand&
[11:31] albertlr Landar: sure please share
[11:31] Loco Admin: Oh, one other question, since it's been like 2 years since I was here. WHAT is going on with Firestorm and OpenSim? !!
[11:32] albertlr Landar: and has anyone heard any updates on the GCG status.
[11:32] Loco Admin: They tried to split the code-base for viewer?
[11:32] Jagga Meredith: I'm from GCG
[11:32] albertlr Landar: Well there is some development going on. Just not a lot.
[11:32] albertlr Landar: The SceneGate viewer I mentioned earlier is derived from FS.
[11:32] Jagga Meredith: Roddie brought up two small sims for one week so people could get in and grab their stuff and cash out their Podex
[11:32] Jagga Meredith: then it will be down for maintenance
[11:33] Jagga Meredith: I'll be very surprised if it's back
[11:33] albertlr Landar: ... /wiki/Home
[11:33] Moto.Sapa seen roddie here in lbsa to
[11:33] Jagga Meredith: lbsa?
[11:33] Loco Admin: SceneGate. Yes. I was hearing echos of a OpenSim viewer
[11:33] Loco Admin: an
[11:34] Danger Lytton is Online
[11:34] albertlr Landar: Its Idea is to make FS as simple as possible for new users and the handicapped.
[11:34] Moto.Sapa dayturn is not great
[11:34] albertlr Landar: But you can still turn everything on under the settings.
[11:34] Azi Az: Danger tried SceneGate and uninstalled it right after
[11:35] albertlr Landar: well they have issued the official release now it seems stable
[11:36] albertlr Landar: And they are continuing to make releases of Singularity, I am using it now myself.
[11:36] Jagga Meredith: another issue for lag. If you've got stuff from defunct regions/grids and/or users, DNS fails will eat you alive. So if you've got any GCG stuff it may be affected. Apparently there's something you can do server side to fix that
[11:36] Jagga Meredith: (perhaps someone knowledgeable will explain)
[11:37] albertlr Landar: you would probably have to make changes to the data in your database.
[11:37] Jagga Meredith: yes
[11:37] albertlr Landar: to correct the false DNS things.
[11:37] Jagga Meredith: there's a query
[11:38] Loco Admin: Jagga. Very true. That was also true years ago, and I ended up cutting some network lookups as a result
[11:39] snakedance moonwing: -*-KiSs Me YoU FoOll-*-
[11:40] snakedance moonwing: whoops
[11:40] snakedance moonwing: lol
[11:40] Loco Admin: You must be talking to Foxx
[11:40] Loco Admin: :)
[11:40] Jagga Meredith: lol
[11:40] snakedance moonwing: :)
[11:40] Azi Az: lool
[11:40] Foxx Bode: under threat of a sign....
[11:40] Loco Admin: hehe
[11:41] LaNani Sundara is Online
[11:41] Azi Az: lol
[11:41] albertlr Landar: You can download the official version 1 release of scenegate here: ... er-windows
[11:41] Foxx Bode: but ok. look around, closely. WHo's the only one unlikely you can slap on one ehh ?
[11:42] Loco Admin: Some good tips today. Thank you all
[11:42] Foxx Bode: :)
[11:42] Jagga Meredith: oh thank you!!
[11:42] Loco Admin is Online
[11:42] albertlr Landar: They also have a Linux version
[11:42] Jagga Meredith: I learn so much here
[11:43] Moto.Sapa any one want lm to grand canyon
[11:43] Jagga Meredith: sure
[11:43] Azi Az: yes moto i have never visit
[11:43] Foxx Bode: sure
[11:43] Loco Admin: Albertlr, the IRC channels continue this conversation throughout the week? Perhaps Freenode #opensim or elsewhere?
[11:43] Danger Lytton is Online
[11:44] Moto.Sapa oo this missing the text is a pain
[11:44] Loco Admin: I'll take landmarks. I'm anxious to see what I've missed
[11:44] George Equus: Yes please
[11:44] albertlr Landar: One other issue I understand that the SceneGate viewer plans to address is security on the Internet.
[11:44] Danger Lytton is Offline
[11:44] Loco Admin: How so?
[11:45] Danger Lytton is Online
[11:45] albertlr Landar: well I understand they feel the viewers are not properly set up to handle security issues.
[11:46] albertlr Landar: You would need to read more at their web site on that.
[11:46] Moto.Sapa medic copter on stand by
[11:46] albertlr Landar: They have a paid developer working on it.
[11:47] Azi Az: ii heard its a pathetic viewer
[11:47] Danger Lytton is Offline
[11:47] albertlr Landar: Thats because they probably opened it up in the simply form.
[11:47] Moto.Sapa not when every viewer is tied to linden labs
[11:48] Azi Az: yes could be
[11:48] albertlr Landar: It has everything the FS has but most of that is hidden, to help new users.
[11:48] Danger Lytton is Online
[11:48] albertlr Landar: You have to go into setting to get all the settings and things activated.
[11:48] Loco Admin: Love that idea
[11:48] Loco Admin: (sincerely)
[11:48] Jagga Meredith: you have to go into settings to get setting activated. Isn't that recursive?
[11:49] albertlr Landar: well maybe better worded as to get all setting activated .
[11:49] Jagga Meredith: err...what's the opposite of recursive?
[11:49] Loco Admin: hehe ... But seriously, the idea of a viewer that starts simple and grows with user-knowledge. I've thought and even spoken about this many times
[11:49] albertlr Landar: redundant
[11:49] albertlr Landar: maybe better.
[11:49] Roland.Francis is Offline
[11:50] Azi Az: so i understand if they have it all hidden is to have a lighter work viewer but if u activate them all then.........might bbe not as much lighter?
[11:50] Moto.Sapa why did i have sllplugin and slvoice when we are not on sl
[11:50] Danger Lytton is Offline
[11:51] Loco Admin: Same reason we write LSL script when not in SL
[11:51] albertlr Landar: becasue slvoice is used here, you just have to request a free account from the people for your region.
[11:51] albertlr Landar: But they are also working on EchoVoice for Opensim too now.
[11:51] Danger Lytton is Online
[11:51] Moto.Sapa i have ports open to viox
[11:51] Moto.Sapa not sl
[11:52] Loco Admin: Has anyone here tried the IRC messaging replacement for OpenSim?
[11:52] Moto.Sapa take apart slplugin
[11:52] albertlr Landar: ... nsimulator
[11:52] Moto.Sapa llserver.exe
[11:52] Moto.Sapa llhost.exe
[11:52] albertlr Landar: The developers mostly use the IRC, was not aware there was a replacement.
[11:53] Moto.Sapa even the uuid is referenced to linden labs
[11:53] Loco Admin: Perhaps that was a prototype I saw in the code-base contribs
[11:53] Loco Admin: I forget now where I was
[11:53] albertlr Landar: yea, there were a lot of early things that were dropped over the years, and not necessarily used anymore.
[11:53] Jagga Meredith: Hurliman plaza?
[11:53] Moto.Sapa i talked to some eng and to make a stand alone viewer would cost around 54,000
[11:53] Loco Admin: That's where I is :)
[11:54] Loco Admin: $54K? Remember his name?
[11:54] Loco Admin: USD ?
[11:54] Loco Admin: Sold
[11:54] Moto.Sapa no it was years ago
[11:54] albertlr Landar: well most of the problems are that a lot of the required code work is not in the public domain, and not open sourced.
[11:54] Moto.Sapa nope its not
[11:55] albertlr Landar: So anyone going into it runs into licensing problems, and for non profits that is a dead end.
[11:55] Loco Admin: Linden Labs has the very same problem when they opened around 2008, as I recall
[11:55] Loco Admin: (or tried to)
[11:55] albertlr Landar: Malanie was trying to work on one a couple of years ago, ran into problems that the graphics they were using had to be licensed.
[11:56] Fu Barr is Online
[11:57] Moto.Sapa cost then 150,000 for havock
[11:58] albertlr Landar: And the Physics engine we now use is open sourced and free.
[11:58] albertlr Landar: We have choices of two to use.
[11:58] Moto.Sapa shame we cant get in to the moses project
[11:59] albertlr Landar: well they could but it would take a lot of work, and they went their own way with that, not really keeping in mind the public using it.
[11:59] albertlr Landar: They were approaching it from a military security stand point.
[11:59] Moto.Sapa security was the goal
[12:00] Loco Admin: Albert: Are you talking about the graphic image formats being licensed?
[12:00] albertlr Landar: yea, that takes a lot away from being open sourced.
[12:00] Loco Admin: Like JPEG2K etc?
[12:00] albertlr Landar: yea, for the viewers.
[12:00] Loco Admin: And server-side baking
[12:00] Loco Admin: Right?
[12:00] albertlr Landar: The rendering of the graphics if I understand what was said at the time.
[12:00] Fu Barr is Offline
[12:01] albertlr Landar: well as its now 12 noon.
[12:01] Hissy Fit: hello folks.
[12:01] albertlr Landar: We can adjourn for the day.
[12:01] George Equus: Interesting as always. Thank you.
[12:01] Jagga Meredith: wow
[12:01] snakedance moonwing: *•.¸('*•.¸ ? ¸.•*´)¸.•*
[12:01] snakedance moonwing: .•*?¨`•APPLAUSE•´¨`?*•.
[12:01] snakedance moonwing: ¸.•*(¸.•*´ ? `*•.¸)`*•.¸
[12:01] Loco Admin: Right, well. I tried something last time I was here to split the viewer into a server model with client view-controller.
[12:01] albertlr Landar: Sorry was about to end the meeting Hissy, but stay and chat if you wish.
[12:01] Hissy Fit: :) thanks
[12:01] Loco Admin: And the rendering got messy with server-side
[12:02] albertlr Landar: I have to run in rl.
[12:02] albertlr Landar: But thanks for coming today everyone, be back next week.
[12:02] Loco Admin: But it was faster and allowed for some mobile
[12:02] Loco Admin: Yes. Time up
[12:02] Moto.Sapa thanks for hosting
[12:02] snakedance moonwing: *•.¸('*•.¸ ? ¸.•*´)¸.•*
[12:02] snakedance moonwing: .•*?¨`•APPLAUSE•´¨`?*•.
[12:02] snakedance moonwing: ¸.•*(¸.•*´ ? `*•.¸)`*•.¸
[12:02] Loco Admin: *waves*
[12:02] albertlr Landar: take care everyone.
[12:02] Foxx Bode: *-* ByE *-*
[12:02] George Equus: Till next week...

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