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 Post subject: Saturday Q&A for October 13th, 2018
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:09 pm
Posts: 427
NOTE: After some initial problems with Hurliman Plaza, Dan was able to load a new version which seemed to resolve the problems with people teleporting to the region. So the meeting began about 24 minutes later.


[11:24] dan banner: welcome everyone
[11:24] KentDavis Edman: thanks
[11:24] George Equus: Thanks
[11:24] Arrwyll Barzane: hey dan
[11:24] KentDavis Edman: Good to see you dan
[11:25] dan banner: ive made a new release for everyone
[11:25] dan banner: (for those that use osgrid opensim)
[11:25] TIGGS Beaumont: Tank you Dan
[11:25] LaNani Sundara: fixed some bugs? :)
[11:26] Arrwyll Barzane: easy to install?
[11:26] dan banner: its had some changes, mainly to combine mesh and textures in same code
[11:26] dan banner: it does have some better bandwidth added
[11:26] TIGGS Beaumont: OMG Arrwyll
[11:26] TIGGS Beaumont: I have to break something else?
[11:26] TIGGS Beaumont: How many do I have to break this time?
[11:26] George Equus: On it for a few days Dan
[11:26] LaNani Sundara: hi Jamie ;) come sit with us
[11:26] LaNani Sundara: hmm chat lag
[11:27] TIGGS Beaumont: big time yes
[11:27] dan banner: this should make naked avatars on teleporting less likely to happen
[11:27] TIGGS Beaumont: <--listening
[11:27] dan banner: stupid gesture
[11:27] cilla teebrook: bummer
[11:28] Ubit Umarov is Offline
[11:28] Jamie McGuire: LOL I can't sit here.
[11:28] Ubit Umarov is Online
[11:29] LaNani Sundara: did you say naked! Dan?
[11:29] LaNani Sundara: and... chat lag
[11:29] KentDavis Edman: hehe
[11:29] KentDavis Edman: that happen gesture itself
[11:29] KentDavis Edman: Tiggs no. just accident on gesture itself.
[11:29] KentDavis Edman: chat bad lag now
[11:29] dan banner: and speed up loading
[11:29] dan banner: ive been testing some settings and what seems to work well for me is 500kbps in viewer network panel
[11:29] Kyro Ky: so thats a good thing right?
[11:29] dan banner: ya idk whats with this sim i might try using different ports maybe
[11:29] Koni Lanzius: haha
[11:30] TIGGS Beaumont: *raises hand
[11:30] TIGGS Beaumont: Raises hand higher
[11:30] TIGGS Beaumont: but ya did hehe
[11:30] TIGGS Beaumont: wow full minute here Lani
[11:30] Arrwyll Barzane: of all the breaks!
[11:30] Arrwyll Barzane: Jeff first to score yaaaay
[11:30] Arrwyll Barzane: taKE ANY SEAT jAMIE
[11:30] Snoots Dwagon: That is something everyone jokes about... but that can be quite shocking to a newb to appear naked in a crowd of strangers. Logout, no come back. So is important fix. ; )
[11:30] Arrwyll Barzane: OOPS
[11:30] Snoots Dwagon: Yup, serious chat lag... 60 seconds or more
[11:30] Arrwyll Barzane: yam chat lag m big time
[11:30] Jeff Hall: haha
[11:30] Jeff Hall: u can sit beside;)
[11:30] George Equus: 1
[11:30] George Equus: 2
[11:30] George Equus: 3
[11:30] George Equus: 4
[11:30] George Equus: Severe chat lag
[11:30] LaNani Sundara: i am sorry Dan, i looked at the new code, it is a start of an improvement but still there is a throttle and i think it is causing this
[11:30] Snoots Dwagon: GEEEMINIY
[11:30] Koni Lanzius: ~** HAHAHA! **~
[11:30] cilla teebrook: true
[11:30] TIGGS Beaumont: Da/Albetir was the test we did last week not to reduce the entry of nekkid folks?
[11:30] TIGGS Beaumont: and reduced lag?
[11:31] TIGGS Beaumont: Dan
[11:31] Arrwyll Barzane: maybe if twiggs would sit still for a minute
[11:31] Mirror Amorasi is Offline
[11:31] Koni Lanzius: heheh
[11:31] dan banner: lanani: this is just the start of changes to help resolve these issues
[11:31] TIGGS Beaumont: and I thought it worked?
[11:31] TIGGS Beaumont: LOL
[11:31] TIGGS Beaumont: hold one
[11:31] KentDavis Edman: .
[11:31] Snoots Dwagon: Okay let's everyone switch to TALKY mwahahahahaha
[11:31] dan banner: lanani: something is inheriently wrong on this sim
[11:31] Arrwyll Barzane: lol
[11:32] dan banner: i need to move this oar to a different sim or something
[11:32] Snoots Dwagon: Yeah
[11:32] Snoots Dwagon: Testing
[11:32] cilla teebrook: bless us all
[11:32] Snoots Dwagon: Hmmm worked now
[11:32] albertlr Landar: that would probably be best
[11:32] KentDavis Edman: Yes please move to different SIM
[11:32] Arrwyll Barzane: are you drinking tiggs?
[11:32] TIGGS Beaumont: yes
[11:32] TIGGS Beaumont: all of it
[11:32] Arrwyll Barzane: sighs
[11:32] TIGGS Beaumont: lol
[11:32] TIGGS Beaumont: NOOOOOO
[11:32] Arrwyll Barzane: lol
[11:32] Koni Lanzius: hey ubit
[11:32] Snoots Dwagon: I see chat working okay now
[11:32] TIGGS Beaumont: Ubit hello
[11:32] dan banner: ports it is using or something is not agreeing
[11:32] KentDavis Edman: .
[11:33] Snoots Dwagon: Hi da Ubit
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:33] LaNani Sundara: we moved to Wright Plaza last week cos of chat lag here
[11:33] dan banner: maybe too much mesh?
[11:33] dan banner: wright is same code
[11:33] TIGGS Beaumont: I am stil wondering if the test we did last week were not what Dan was just speaking of?
[11:33] Arrwyll Barzane: howdy ubit
[11:33] dan banner: we can try wright
[11:33] KentDavis Edman: Yes dan let's TP
[11:33] cilla teebrook: lololol
[11:34] Snoots Dwagon: I think the chat was lagged cos everyone was TPIng at same time
[11:34] cilla teebrook: oh my goodness
[11:34] Snoots Dwagon: Took server time to catch up
[11:34] TIGGS Beaumont: use my sim Dan it is empty Pandora Blue
[11:34] George Equus: Hi Ubit
[11:34] Snoots Dwagon: Seems to be working now
[11:34] George Equus: No chat lag now it seem
[11:34] cilla teebrook: i agree with Snoots
[11:34] George Equus: Nope... instant
[11:34] TIGGS Beaumont: all is well?
[11:34] cilla teebrook: sit still tiggs
[11:34] LaNani Sundara: :) i have a few nice and fast sims we can use ;p
[11:34] Snoots Dwagon: I see Tiggs in pajamas in afternoon. So everything seems about right
[11:34] LaNani Sundara: ok i will be quiet
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: your sims are not fast.. are suicidal :p
[11:35] cilla teebrook: she just can't stop herself when on blue
[11:35] TIGGS Beaumont: I am hehe
[11:35] LaNani Sundara: Ubit i just said i would be quiet
[11:35] KentDavis Edman: Oh allright I am stay here.
[11:35] TIGGS Beaumont: UBIT OMG they are
[11:35] KentDavis Edman: Mesh is fine with me.
[11:35] TIGGS Beaumont: I wastrying to kill y'all in one shot
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: ok ill respect that then lanani
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: ( for now :p )
[11:35] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[11:35] dan banner: the odd thing i was seeing earlier was i could walk and chat with singularity while my fs avatar was stuck and couldnt move or chat
[11:35] dan banner: at the same time
[11:35] Snoots Dwagon: dan I have been having so much trouble with FS
[11:36] Snoots Dwagon: I've posted Mantis on it
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: i did notice a few fs freezes
[11:36] dan banner: yup
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: viewers need to process the information they get
[11:36] KentDavis Edman: Me, I am not have anything lag
[11:36] Snoots Dwagon: As a builder, FS drives me NUTS!! NUTS I TELL YA!!!!
[11:36] KentDavis Edman: FPs
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: and they are mainly single thread also
[11:36] Koni Lanzius: hehe
[11:36] dan banner: thing i notice about fs is it tries to pull profile info from _everything_
[11:37] dan banner: even when you standing still
[11:37] TIGGS Beaumont: Dan mine is stuck on directionals
[11:37] TIGGS Beaumont: no left right
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: and yes fs tries to get a lot of garbage
[11:37] Snoots Dwagon: I have a very sneaky suspicion FS is creating its own DDoS on a regular basis
[11:37] TIGGS Beaumont: I go foward by depressing back button and vica versa
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( garbage fot the point in time when ti does it )
[11:37] TIGGS Beaumont: so many of the issues are FS based?
[11:37] dan banner: tiggs: your monitor is umop apisdn
[11:38] cilla teebrook: change your the BIG EYE tab
[11:38] TIGGS Beaumont: OMG I do not know chinese
[11:38] cilla teebrook: it has 3 ways to face
[11:38] TIGGS Beaumont: my what?
[11:38] dan banner: turn keyboard around
[11:38] Snoots Dwagon: I think it's a major factor Tiggs... since FS has the very same issues on SL
[11:38] TIGGS Beaumont: Oh shit
[11:38] TIGGS Beaumont: mm shoot
[11:38] TIGGS Beaumont: <---laaughging
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: well on version as you moved the mouse around it asked for parcels information
[11:38] KentDavis Edman: Snoots yes.
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: that is a few MB per request
[11:38] Arrwyll Barzane: sorry boys and girls, but i have no prob with fs
[11:39] KentDavis Edman: I do in SL and OSGrid exactly is the same as graphic within preferences
[11:39] cilla teebrook: her camera view is not a FS issue.... she just clicked something
[11:39] TIGGS Beaumont: and if I begun to use singularity?
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: and kept asking it ... bahh
[11:39] TIGGS Beaumont: and I appologize for the cuss
[11:39] Arrwyll Barzane: maybe i should spend more time online
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: i had to show it directrly to Jessica.. others just ignored
[11:39] Snoots Dwagon: Arrwyll this a chance I been looking for: Two question if I may:
[11:39] Arrwyll Barzane: go ahead
[11:39] George Equus: No problems here on FS 5.0.11
[11:40] Snoots Dwagon: 1) What level of computer do you have and 2) Are you a creator /builder/scripter?
[11:40] Dragon Moorlord is Online
[11:40] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: user interface 3d world un check hover tips
[11:40] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: a constant snoop
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: but that chat lag is strange
[11:40] KentDavis Edman: MacOS 10.14 27" 5K 2017
[11:40] Arrwyll Barzane: i'm a mid range builder, prims only and i cant script
[11:40] Arrwyll Barzane: my computer is described in my profile on last page
[11:40] Snoots Dwagon: What I'm trying to determine is if those with no problems with Firestorm are using high-level computer systems that may push past lag
[11:41] Arrwyll Barzane: yes, i'd have to say my pc is high range
[11:41] Jeff Hall: i dont have any probs with FS here
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: my new pc seems slower than older lol
[11:41] Kyro Ky: I use a high end but also a 6 year old laptop
[11:41] cilla teebrook: I am
[11:41] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: same here
[11:41] Kyro Ky: FS works on both
[11:41] TIGGS Beaumont: Raises hand
[11:41] Kyro Ky: sing sucks on both
[11:41] Jeff Hall: i have lets sat a mid-level gamer comp
[11:42] Jeff Hall: *say
[11:42] Snoots Dwagon: I've seen enough people state having FS lag problems to think that the ones who don't have a "gamer level" computer that is so fast any lag is not noticeable
[11:42] Snoots Dwagon: But normal computers, shows up like sore thumb
[11:42] Arrwyll Barzane: maybe mine is more upper-mid level gamer its a tower -0 and my internet is pretty \good
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: Snoots FS may just stumb on it self :p
[11:42] DJ Higher is Offline
[11:42] TIGGS Beaumont: *raises hand
[11:42] Snoots Dwagon: Also, if you're ot a builder/scripter, you might not notice some of the nastier lag issues such as Contents lag
[11:43] TIGGS Beaumont: RAISES HAND
[11:43] inanna beaumont is Online
[11:43] Snoots Dwagon: yes Ubit I agrees
[11:43] Arrwyll Barzane: looks at tiggsy raising her hand :))(
[11:43] KentDavis Edman: I see Tiggs what you want talk
[11:43] cilla teebrook: true.. i did get a gaming machine years ago but it went flat on me... so I bought samsung laptop and it's fast...
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: contents is not exactly a case of lag
[11:43] DJ Higher is Online
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: just not fast protocol
[11:43] TIGGS Beaumont: *gonna kick Koni
[11:43] TIGGS Beaumont: hehe
[11:44] Snoots Dwagon: Anyhow didn't mean to sidetack on FS, just came up and I wanted to check the system levels while had the chance. :D
[11:44] TIGGS Beaumont: Okay Y'all are speakingof differentlevel computers and a lag issue
[11:44] Snoots Dwagon: Cos we been tracking that a LOT
[11:44] TIGGS Beaumont: Snoots believes more rapid or better computer reduces those issues
[11:44] TIGGS Beaumont: I have no real lag issues
[11:44] Snoots Dwagon: yes Tiggs, zactly
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: or hides the issues a bit :p
[11:45] Snoots Dwagon: If your computer is fast enough, like a nice i7 or mac Tower, it might not even notice the lag
[11:45] cilla teebrook: smiles
[11:45] Snoots Dwagon: Yes Ubit
[11:45] TIGGS Beaumont: my tp are not lag just useless at times, I load very quuickly and even stood without problems on a VAR 7x7 and loaded test oars etc
[11:45] TIGGS Beaumont: no isses
[11:45] TIGGS Beaumont: all on a laptoop
[11:45] cilla teebrook: amen
[11:45] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: dont see a lag just a inital slow down of display loading sims load slow at times
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: i have a i7 and see some issues ( not region side related i hope )
[11:45] TIGGS Beaumont: so I do not (and I know I am computer ignorant) agree with ya Snoots HUGGgzs
[11:45] Snoots Dwagon: TP is another thing. I'm not sure that's totally Firestorm. I think TP may be interna code issues, but not sure
[11:45] KentDavis Edman: Me already fully ULTRA everything on about 14FPs.
[11:46] Snoots Dwagon: I've seen that too MrMoto
[11:46] Arrwyll Barzane: are we having a meeting here today, or can we discuss recipes now?
[11:46] cilla teebrook: only problem this morning was gathering everyone in ONE spot
[11:46] Garry Beaumont: osg started to blow the dust of my fans in the last month or so
[11:46] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[11:46] Jeff Hall: HAHA
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: like just now.. arriving with clean cache fs had a few little frezzes :)
[11:46] Jeff Hall: right
[11:46] Jeff Hall: lets stop debating about viewer
[11:46] Arrwyll Barzane: where's caro ?
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: it can't really handle lludp bandwith of 1500kbps it seems
[11:46] Jeff Hall: rl:)
[11:46] Arrwyll Barzane: ok
[11:47] Jeff Hall: why ?
[11:47] Snoots Dwagon: I just here for the cookies.
[11:47] KentDavis Edman: Me network already full over than 3MBps
[11:47] Arrwyll Barzane: shrugs - just wondered
[11:47] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: even at a point in a sim fully loaded tp out and back sim is now empty and loads slow
[11:47] cilla teebrook: hands Snoot a loaded one ...
[11:47] Snoots Dwagon: :D
[11:47] TIGGS Beaumont: I have experienced 3 or 4 worlds, some or one for sure in BETA, and I am finding all the OSG improvements to date have helped me
[11:48] TIGGS Beaumont: I may be crazy but I do see many improvements
[11:48] Arrwyll Barzane: hahahaahahaa
[11:48] Snoots Dwagon: I don't know why, but I have noticed logging into a region and it loads so. so. slow. I log back out and back in and ZOOM! Loads super fast. ???
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: you ate crazy TIGGS
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: ;)
[11:48] TIGGS Beaumont: yes UBIT but happily so
[11:48] TIGGS Beaumont: *grin
[11:49] Kyro Ky: I noticed in past that on HG wheni join a group, i get a message that it cant connect to the osgrid group server
[11:49] TIGGS Beaumont: I had one login that was insane
[11:49] TIGGS Beaumont: I was suddenly livingin a lime
[11:49] Kyro Ky: is osgrid groups not able to get notices from other grids?
[11:49] TIGGS Beaumont: Kyro hmmm yes at times here as well
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: on HG you should travel light
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: with reduced view range also
[11:49] KentDavis Edman: TP problem http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8382
[11:50] KentDavis Edman: that really me
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: bc have can't tell how strong the region machine is
[11:50] Arrwyll Barzane: my fps is low here - but not too bad - 65....
[11:50] Snoots Dwagon: I'll keep that online Kent and add a comment later. : )
[11:50] KentDavis Edman: sure
[11:51] Snoots Dwagon: <--- current FPS 56
[11:51] TIGGS Beaumont: The new downloads Dan spoke of, were these the results of the tests last week?
[11:51] TIGGS Beaumont: and if we do not dl them what happens?
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: bahh my new box shows 45fps
[11:51] Arrwyll Barzane: dunno
[11:51] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: some thing i have seen in 9.1 open map causes alot of red lines in code did not print out yet
[11:51] Jeff Hall: if i can say: it must not be an issue when HG because if u need to have an alt av to tp then its heavily degrading user experience
[11:51] KentDavis Edman: <------ ULTRA already graphic about 14FPs
[11:51] Snoots Dwagon: FPS isn't always related to speed or lag. Just sometimes acts as an indicator.
[11:52] cilla teebrook: is 19.9 good or bad
[11:52] Arrwyll Barzane: slow cilla
[11:52] cilla teebrook: lol
[11:52] Snoots Dwagon: I have been online with 23fps and no lag at al
[11:52] KentDavis Edman: Gooooooooooooood
[11:52] TIGGS Beaumont: OMG 19.9?
[11:52] Arrwyll Barzane: 24 fps is movie speed..
[11:52] Snoots Dwagon: Other times 70 fps and lagging
[11:52] cilla teebrook: i'm not laggig'
[11:52] KentDavis Edman: me 14
[11:52] Snoots Dwagon: FPS is only part of the story
[11:52] Arrwyll Barzane: yep
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: yes there is not a direct relation
[11:52] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: 26 fps here
[11:52] Snoots Dwagon: In fact, FPS is only a SMALL part of the story. :D
[11:53] Dragon Moorlord is Offline
[11:53] Arrwyll Barzane: 26 is acceptable - no herky jerky on movements...
[11:53] TIGGS Beaumont: 17.2 FPS here?
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but since viewers are still basicly single thread ( not necessary bad) low FPS will mean "lag"
[11:53] cilla teebrook: so what else is new Al?
[11:53] KentDavis Edman: if do default for sure about 50FPs
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but viewer is just not doing things in time
[11:54] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: ping up to 43 ms
[11:54] KentDavis Edman: When skyplat about 120FPs
[11:54] TIGGS Beaumont: asking again...Are the new Downloads the direct result of the tests we participated in last week? and what happens if we do no DL them please?
[11:54] Snoots Dwagon: Well, we just ran a series of tests and someone questioned if issue was FS or OS. So I went to SL and tested it. Same results.
[11:54] Kyro Ky: Is Osgrid group server set up to allow connections from the hypergrid?
[11:54] Arrwyll Barzane: did dan leave?
[11:54] albertlr Landar: Yes, Tiggs they are.
[11:54] Snoots Dwagon: So some issues are OS, but not necessarily FPS lag
[11:55] Snoots Dwagon: many issues are FS problems
[11:55] Dragon Moorlord is Online
[11:55] TIGGS Beaumont: Thank you Albetir
[11:55] albertlr Landar: YEs, Kyro you can connect to hypergrid.
[11:55] Snoots Dwagon: Other issues are OS. Determining which is which, that's the trck
[11:55] KentDavis Edman: Snoots yes exactly.
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: a few.. lets not blame FS for all :)
[11:55] albertlr Landar: The only exception is the Suite case is not supported from Osgrid.
[11:55] Kyro Ky: the group server albert?
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: 99% are FS
[11:55] KentDavis Edman: Some issue are OS but not necessary FPs
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ( lol joking )
[11:55] TIGGS Beaumont: Ubit *glares
[11:55] cilla teebrook: DL 63 UL 6
[11:56] Snoots Dwagon: LOL Ubit. :D
[11:56] Kyro Ky: i have not seen any notices from groups outside of Osgrid
[11:56] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: vertex buffers are constantly growing because of more mesh
[11:56] Kyro Ky: but i do receive them on other grids
[11:56] KentDavis Edman: My house already mesh
[11:56] dan banner: kyro: alot of other grids use groups V2
[11:56] Snoots Dwagon: I have seen many reports that people who shut off vertex buffers crash less
[11:56] cilla teebrook: I get way less notices too
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: we may all notice a dregration of our life experience on osg and SL
[11:57] TIGGS Beaumont: notices?
[11:57] Snoots Dwagon: This has been tested extensively for years, way back to SL days. On some systems vertex buffers cause issues.
[11:57] TIGGS Beaumont: Ubit why?
[11:57] Arrwyll Barzane: why is that Ubit?
[11:57] dan banner: which when we tested groupsV2 vs flotsam groups with the larger groups we have here in osgrid performance was no better and in many cases worse
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: and thats in part bc of increased used of meshes, specially avatar ones
[11:57] KentDavis Edman: I remember word "Ubit" I am not sure remember what is
[11:57] Kyro Ky: does the flotsam not allow for HG group noticves?
[11:58] Snoots Dwagon: excuse me dan, but I kinda new. What does that mean please? V2 vs flotsam
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: they add more "cost" than the improvements on hardware and net can cope with ( for those that did got any improvements )
[11:58] TIGGS Beaumont: Thank you for that question Snoots
[11:58] Snoots Dwagon: Okay so in short, the performanc is too good for the net?
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: avatars are simple to understand.. old Ruth meshes are all on our PCs and are small
[11:59] Snoots Dwagon: Like pushing an bathtub of water through a 1/2" pipe?
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: new avatar meshes are not.. are larger and getting unique.. so one per avatar
[11:59] Snoots Dwagon: ah
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: plus mesh clothes
[12:00] KentDavis Edman: I do mesh clothes everyone already saw me.
[12:00] Snoots Dwagon: Again if I may, what is "flotsam" and "V2"?
[12:00] KentDavis Edman: before
[12:00] Snoots Dwagon: New terms to me
[12:00] TIGGS Beaumont: flotsam as in "floating trash?
[12:00] Snoots Dwagon: LOL yeah Tiggs. :D
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: floatsam and v2 ? dont see the relation
[12:00] TIGGS Beaumont: Thank yu Snoots
[12:00] Kyro Ky: for groups
[12:01] Snoots Dwagon: Ubit, someone mentioned flotsam and V2 in same sentence. Curious as to what both are
[12:01] TIGGS Beaumont: so it is like pixels in space randonmy floating abut?
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: ahhh
[12:01] Arrwyll Barzane: this is all way over my head stay with prims , its better - i gotta go
[12:01] Koni Lanzius: bye arr
[12:01] Snoots Dwagon: See later Arrwyll
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: flot same is a older groups module
[12:01] inanna beaumont is Offline
[12:01] Arrwyll Barzane: taKE CARE EVERYONE
[12:01] Arrwyll Barzane: OOPS
[12:01] Arrwyll Barzane: GOTTA FIX THAT - THIS
[12:01] cilla teebrook: it can change any minute
[12:01] Kyro Ky: is it a local group only Ubit?
[12:01] Arrwyll Barzane: byeee
[12:01] TIGGS Beaumont: Arrwykll hUGzs later
[12:01] Snoots Dwagon: Okay. So Flotsam = older module that handled groups. Is it now out of use?
[12:02] Kyro Ky: local to the grid?
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: it needs server side code external to opensim
[12:02] Snoots Dwagon: ahhh
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: V2 is opensim implementation, all included in opensim
[12:02] Snoots Dwagon: KK tyty
[12:02] TIGGS Beaumont: so V2 is us?
[12:02] Kyro Ky: is that set on the region or robust?
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: depends.. grids can use any of those
[12:03] Snoots Dwagon: Good question Kyro. Is v2 part of Opensim or Robust?
[12:03] KentDavis Edman: My home is OpenSIM 0.8.3
[12:03] TIGGS Beaumont: *aises hand again
[12:03] TIGGS Beaumont: what happens if we have no dayum idea how to DL these fixes?
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: think osg is using flotsam ??
[12:03] Snoots Dwagon: ~*~* Appaws!! Appaws!! ~*~
[12:03] Snoots Dwagon: Dat a great question Tiggs. LOL
[12:04] TIGGS Beaumont: LOL Snoots
[12:04] TIGGS Beaumont: but seriously
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: ( also moving from one to the other implies some messy DBs convertions.. )
[12:04] Kyro Ky: thats what Dan said raidsing the question of whether flotsam can connect or be connected from groups on other grids
[12:04] TIGGS Beaumont: he did?
[12:04] TIGGS Beaumont: *sighs
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: yeah there mb issues on that
[12:05] Snoots Dwagon: Ah... now I'm starting to understand some issues. Different grids using conflicting software instead of everyone on same page?
[12:05] TIGGS Beaumont: well Snoots yes
[12:05] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: has any one seen the oar and iar fail to load correctly from a saved 8.2.1 to 9.1 upload?
[12:05] TIGGS Beaumont: sort of like wearing gold earrings with a silver necklace
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: one must also think the idea of HG beeing exactly as beeing in same grid is not correct
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: somethings will never work
[12:05] Snoots Dwagon: yeah Tiggs... I HATE it when that happens
[12:06] Koni Lanzius: ~** HAHAHA! **~
[12:06] TIGGS Beaumont: me too!!!
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: some that opensim actually does try..
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: but will never work!!
[12:06] TIGGS Beaumont: okay so how many on the HG use this V2 thing?
[12:06] Snoots Dwagon: Right Ubit. I kinda understood what you said there. :D
[12:06] KentDavis Edman: Paela already explain me. 0.9 problem TP. I had been experiece and Logan (my friend) decide change from 0.9.1 to 0.8.3 finally it work on TP to go my home
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: guess most use xmlrpc grousp ( flotsam)
[12:07] Snoots Dwagon: Okay so some of the TP issues is difference in Opensim version?
[12:07] KentDavis Edman: No
[12:07] Jeff Hall: ubit: as long as i dont have to fear losing stuff when HG i dont mind not having access to some in my inventory: my only concern is that i dont want to switch av to hg?
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: bc they had it up before V2 and as i said converting to v2 is not directly
[12:07] KentDavis Edman: LBSA 0.9.1 and my home 0.9.1 few months ago I tried TP many times
[12:07] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: wizz saw the bouncing on the razed land baking is not stable
[12:07] KentDavis Edman: Logan decide to change from 0.9.1 to 0.8.3 finally I able TP to go home
[12:08] TIGGS Beaumont: Okay, so what I have surmised here today is we are screwed
[12:08] TIGGS Beaumont: when it cmes to HG at times
[12:08] Koni Lanzius: heheh
[12:08] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: well in RL when you travel you make a lot of arrangements
[12:08] TIGGS Beaumont: uh huh
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: like travel light so things are accepted on the airplane etc :)
[12:08] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: raw was generated in 8.2.1
[12:08] Snoots Dwagon: Well, all I know is when I first set up my VAR, there were constant crashes on TPS, even between LBSA. Then for some odd reason those issues just went away. No idea why.
[12:08] Jeff Hall: when i travel i keep having my same person
[12:09] TIGGS Beaumont: Isn't it plain as day, we deal withh, fix and improve what we have here in OSG, we allow ourselves the luxory of tp on the HG and we should really just worry about OSG?
[12:09] TIGGS Beaumont: Snoots * I point to the council of genuis *over there
[12:09] Snoots Dwagon: Dan, the question of the day: this new update to OSgrid... how do we implement that on our existing systems?
[12:09] TIGGS Beaumont: them
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: OSG is also HG crossroads :)
[12:09] KentDavis Edman: I put HOME before login force me Lbsa from my home within 0.9.1 many times.
[12:10] Kyro Ky: compatibility with hypergrid is important to a lot of peole
[12:10] TIGGS Beaumont: yes the HUB to the spokes of the world
[12:10] KentDavis Edman: Now my home finally arrive there my home within 0.8.3
[12:10] TIGGS Beaumont: Snoots i think I know that question *grin
[12:10] Jeff Hall: ubit: i dont mind having not access to some of my inventory, but i dont want to need a "hg alt"
[12:10] Jeff Hall: it breaks user experience i think
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: just keep in mind beeing in another grid via HG is not the same as beeing in another region on same grid
[12:11] Jeff Hall: obvioulsy
[12:11] TIGGS Beaumont: now waits for possible answer
[12:11] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: is there a update to the new code?
[12:11] dan banner: snoots: save oars, shutdown sim, make a new folder, copy over regions.ini, sqlite databases if you use them -or- mysql connection strings to gridcommon and fire up the new sim
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: we try to make it look like it is.. and fail :p
[12:11] Snoots Dwagon: I don't really understand why we can't have access to all our inventory while out on the HG... by accessing our home server. Makes no sense to me. But I just a dwagon.
[12:11] TIGGS Beaumont: OG Dan just said what Paela was teaching me this morning
[12:11] Snoots Dwagon: Thanks Dan. Copying that to notecard
[12:11] cilla teebrook: so that is why some ppl have ask friendship with a dozen @s
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: and that also relates to freedom..
[12:11] KentDavis Edman: What did dan say to you
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: like HG does not depend on anyone
[12:12] Jeff Hall: i agree ubit its not same; as long as i dont have to fear loosing contents after HG thats all i meant
[12:12] Snoots Dwagon: [12:11] dan banner: snoots: save oars, shutdown sim, make a new folder, copy over regions.ini, sqlite databases if you use them -or- mysql connection strings to gridcommon and fire up the new sim
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: like one entity keeping central data to make HG better
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: we do not want that
[12:12] Snoots Dwagon: I don't understand all that, but I'll run it through the decoder...
[12:12] Snoots Dwagon: Which version of OS did OSgrid just update to and where do we get it?
[12:13] Foxx Bode: https://www.osgrid.org/download.php
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: its opensim master
[12:13] cilla teebrook: hugs the silent man
[12:13] KentDavis Edman: Foxx this link support for mac?
[12:13] Foxx Bode: yeah, just make sure mono is up to date,
[12:14] KentDavis Edman: good
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Build_Instructions
[12:14] KentDavis Edman: Ubit did you mean link good for Mac?
[12:14] Snoots Dwagon: [Does anyone else thing that having MONO on our regions just plain SOUNDS bad? :D]
[12:14] Jeff Hall: os, linux and even alien using ,net on windows like me
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: thats source code :)
[12:14] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: latest is 10/08/2018?
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: dan will release new osgrid bins
[12:15] KentDavis Edman: Allright
[12:15] Jeff Hall: (kidding since .net is windows technology but many tend to forget)
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: that are basicly opensim code with ini files setup for osgrid
[12:15] Snoots Dwagon: As someone ancient in virtual worlds but new to Opensim, may I make a public observaton for whatever value?
[12:16] Koni Lanzius: g'head
[12:16] Jeff Hall: say Snoot
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: profiles also had a older version and a newer opensim version
[12:16] KentDavis Edman: g'head = Go ahead
[12:16] Koni Lanzius: hehehe
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: so ocasional some intergrids issues on thoe
[12:16] KentDavis Edman: that right?
[12:16] Koni Lanzius: yes thank you Kent
[12:16] KentDavis Edman: yw
[12:16] Snoots Dwagon: Observation: OpenSim is too difficult for the average person to install, and the average person to update. I am a computer consultant with 30 years of experience, and Opensim installation information confused the blazes out of me. I had to have a friend help me set up my VAR.
[12:17] Snoots Dwagon: That should not be the case. After 11+ years, OpenSim needs to be a push-button, auto-installation system.
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: opensim binary release is still 0.9.0.1
[12:17] Snoots Dwagon: If it ever expects t grow
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: not the one in use here !!
[12:17] Snoots Dwagon: And it should be push-button, easy-update
[12:17] TIGGS Beaumont: ck me up too?
[12:17] TIGGS Beaumont: LOL
[12:17] Snoots Dwagon: We can't have techs hand-holding every time there's an OS update
[12:18] Kyro Ky: opensim is easier to configure and install then a new install of Firestorm
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: osgrid does run pretty close to the most recent opensim dev version.. most time only a week desync
[12:18] Snoots Dwagon: And new users who want to hook to OSgrid shouldn't need the help of a tech just to install an Opensim server
[12:18] Snoots Dwagon: That's my observation.
[12:18] dan banner: snoots its not that difficult.. you just make a new opensim folder with binary from https://www.osgrid.org/download.php and copy your regions.ini and database from existing folder
[12:18] Garry Beaumont: Snoots, try Fred Beckhusen version.
[12:18] Snoots Dwagon: Okay thanks Dan. That helps... in plain Englsh. :D
[12:18] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:19] dan banner: this way if it goes south you have original folder that still works
[12:19] Jeff Hall: i understand what Snoots mean
[12:19] Snoots Dwagon: KK kewl
[12:19] cilla teebrook: love of this chit chat ... but think I'll go play on my Var
[12:19] cilla teebrook: buhbye
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: think Fred uses 0.9.0.1 and obsolete 0.8.3
[12:19] Garry Beaumont: if you like big buttons to press
[12:19] Koni Lanzius: byeee
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ( with his changes )
[12:19] Snoots Dwagon: Well thing is... if Opensim is going to grow and be popular, it needs to be VERY easy to install for newbies
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: coff coff coff :)
[12:19] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: well opensim bins are not that hard to install for standalones
[12:20] dan banner: snoots there are folks out there for $7-$12 /mo will handle all the magic for you
[12:20] stiofain mactomais: it needs a simple viewer more than an easy instal
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: our config examples are basicly for standalones
[12:20] TIGGS Beaumont: Snoots why does OSG need to grow and be opular though>?
[12:20] TIGGS Beaumont: It is a HUB
[12:20] TIGGS Beaumont: fir all to branch out from
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: yeah viewers are a problem
[12:21] TIGGS Beaumont: <-is confused
[12:21] Snoots Dwagon: I didn't say OSG. Said Opensim. But if people can't figure out how to set up Opensim... then they can't figure out how to connect to OSG
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: ( and there should be a lot more ppl just running viewers than regions )
[12:21] TIGGS Beaumont: OSG and OS are n ot the same thing?
[12:21] Snoots Dwagon: I mean, having to MANUALLY crawl inside a modem just to get it to work?
[12:21] Snoots Dwagon: No Tiggs. OS is Opensim software, OSg is OSgrid
[12:22] Koni Lanzius: great meeting guys
[12:22] TIGGS Beaumont: okay I need to read more
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: well to connect to osg it is just better to get osg bins
[12:22] Koni Lanzius: ive gotta dash
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: its all almost doen
[12:22] TIGGS Beaumont: Thank you Snoots
[12:22] TIGGS Beaumont: Koni be well
[12:22] Koni Lanzius: later, taters ;)
[12:22] Kyro Ky: biggest challenge is loopback
[12:22] Kyro Ky: first and foremost
[12:22] Snoots Dwagon: See laters Koni. :D
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: im opensim dev and sometimes i just use osgrig bins :p
[12:22] Kyro Ky: as long as the router supports it, its all good
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: ( yes im lazy )
[12:23] TIGGS Beaumont: ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh we are on the grid that uses OS software got it
[12:23] TIGGS Beaumont: so OS is the little engine that does?
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: LITTLE ???
[12:23] Snoots Dwagon: LOL yes Tiggs, zactly. :D
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: hihihi
[12:23] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:24] Kyro Ky: ok thx for the info Dan
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: another thing about opensim dev code
[12:24] KentDavis Edman: OpenSim I am goal some one make simply step by step for Mac. Don't read too much and longest paragraph.
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: sometimes it is BROKEN
[12:25] Snoots Dwagon: Scuse me if I asked "simple" questions but since the shutdown of Inworldz a lotta people have been trying to acclimate to Opensim... and a lotta people been having major issues and given up
[12:25] KentDavis Edman: How to install OpenSIM for Mac
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: it is suposed to be ocasionaly broken.. it is a dev version
[12:25] DJ.Higher @hg.osgrid.org is offering a TP to https://osgrid/region//0/0/0 (Unknown)
[12:25] Koni Lanzius is Offline
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: dan filters that not doing releases from that :)
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: ( you just may notcie LBSA explode now and then :) )
[12:26] KentDavis Edman: I will not go there Lbsa until end of October.
[12:27] Snoots Dwagon: How come Kent?
[12:27] dan banner: hes scared of ghosts
[12:27] KentDavis Edman: I feel not comfortable too many Halloween
[12:27] TIGGS Beaumont: well UBIT I thought I kept lowing it up
[12:27] Snoots Dwagon: Well, I agree Kent, but that's EVERYWHERE. :D
[12:27] KentDavis Edman: smile
[12:27] Snoots Dwagon: Makes me want to put on a Ghostbusters costume with some major blaster effects :D
[12:28] Jeff Hall: haha
[12:28] TIGGS Beaumont: *just shoots whatever it is
[12:28] dan banner: i love halloween
[12:28] dan banner: its a holiday you c
[12:28] TIGGS Beaumont: me too ya big prankster
[12:28] TIGGS Beaumont: I owe ya
[12:29] dan banner: its a holiday you can enjoy without having to deal with relatives (mother in laws, etc)
[12:29] Snoots Dwagon chuckles
[12:29] TIGGS Beaumont: itoh
[12:29] Jamie McGuire: LOL
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: ( if something strange happens in the neib who gonna call .. SNOOTSBUSTER )
[12:29] KentDavis Edman: Ok. I am goal some one make very simply step by step how to install OpenSIM for Mac
[12:29] Snoots Dwagon: Agreed Kent... and for PC. Because a very simple step-by-step is badly needed.
[12:29] KentDavis Edman: Yaaaay at Snoots
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: it should run on macs
[12:30] KentDavis Edman: yes
[12:30] Snoots Dwagon: Opensim needs a very simple step-by-step for Windows, Mac and Linux... along with exactly how to hook into OSgrid
[12:30] dan banner: mac and linux are same
[12:30] dan banner: both need mono
[12:30] Snoots Dwagon: Because currently, one does not exist that I have seen
[12:30] dan banner: mono OpenSim.exe
[12:30] KentDavis Edman: Yes Snoots exactly
[12:30] dan banner: etc
[12:30] KentDavis Edman: Yes Dan because of Terminal.
[12:30] Snoots Dwagon: I had to call in the big guns, and I'm an experienced consultant. So if I couldn't figure it out, it is by no means mainstream-ready
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: osgrid does have a lot of instructions Snoots
[12:31] Snoots Dwagon: Yes Ubit, but often those instructions are written by techs for techs
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: and osgrid bins are almost ready to use
[12:31] Snoots Dwagon: And techs often forget how to speak in plain english. ;D
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: the hard part is router
[12:31] Snoots Dwagon: Yes
[12:31] Jeff Hall: running opensim requires above average comp knowledge yes
[12:31] Jeff Hall: router and loopback as ubit said
[12:31] Snoots Dwagon: But as someone said to me: After 11+ years online, Opensim *should* have an installation wizard that just. plain. works.
[12:31] dan banner: minecraft ftw
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: coff coff coff
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:32] Snoots Dwagon: LOL Dan yeah
[12:32] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: cool just loaded the latest osg and pimple does not have bouance
[12:32] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: i can land
[12:32] KentDavis Edman: Me SecondLife since from 2007 and OSGrid 1 year
[12:32] Snoots Dwagon: I mean, seriously, do we think Minecraft would be popular if people had to climb inside their router to get it to install?
[12:32] TIGGS Beaumont: May I interject a thought here?
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: mincraft is not a server
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: is it ?
[12:32] Snoots Dwagon: True Ubit... but UNREAL is, and I installed that without any problems
[12:33] dan banner: tbh it takes a certain kind of person to like pixelated environments
[12:33] Ubit Umarov: unreal is not a server either.. :p
[12:33] dan banner: unreal is an engine
[12:33] Snoots Dwagon: Tiggs if you want to insert a thought, you have to throw a gas grenade first
[12:33] TIGGS Beaumont: hod on I may have one
[12:33] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:34] stiofain mactomais: the closest to an easy instal is outworldz https://www.outworldz.com/outworldz_installer/
[12:34] Snoots Dwagon: Anyhow, not meant to derail. Just passing on an observation I have heard from many people since Inworldz died. "I tried Opensim and gave up"
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: Fred did some good job making that easier
[12:34] TIGGS Beaumont: Okay, I do agree with the premise of what Snoots is saying, abiut newbies needing to learn OS from the bottom up
[12:34] KentDavis Edman: This link there make me confused
[12:34] TIGGS Beaumont: I am one of those with a thechnophobic personality
[12:34] TIGGS Beaumont: However, I do find with a great deal of help\
[12:35] TIGGS Beaumont: we have the info at our fingertips
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: Snoots inworldz ppl should look for grids :)
[12:35] dan banner: snoots there are a dozen hosting services that will happily run well performing regions for little cost
[12:35] TIGGS Beaumont: OS tutorials
[12:35] TIGGS Beaumont: hands on classes
[12:35] dan banner: and put them on any grid you like
[12:35] stiofain mactomais: they dont need set up a server to use os
[12:35] Snoots Dwagon: I agree Ubit, that is the easest way.
[12:35] TIGGS Beaumont: so many learning possibilities
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: yeap grids or ppl that do run regions
[12:35] Snoots Dwagon: And for most Ubit, that is probably the best way
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: some do run regions that connect where you ask
[12:35] TIGGS Beaumont: I think as we find these we becoe better OSG (citizenry) in general
[12:35] Snoots Dwagon: But if they want 100% control... there's only one way
[12:35] Snoots Dwagon: That's to serve yourself
[12:35] Jeff Hall: dan: even "hosting service" can look alien to a newbye
[12:36] dan banner: there are several hosting companies that run sims here for people
[12:36] Ubit Umarov: bc yes running opensim will never be a esay thing
[12:36] TIGGS Beaumont: umm I was an Inworldz People
[12:36] TIGGS Beaumont: look what it did to me
[12:36] sarah kline is Online
[12:36] Snoots Dwagon: GASP!
[12:36] Ubit Umarov: unless a somewhat limited subset
[12:36] Snoots Dwagon: IT DID *THAT*????
[12:36] dan banner: ya and tiggs is like a a fish in water here
[12:36] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:36] KentDavis Edman: I let you know. I not have OpenSIM on my iMac yet.
[12:36] Jeff Hall: also running yourself is soo fun
[12:36] Snoots Dwagon: Mind you, coming from INworldz to OSgrid wasn't a problem. Just took a little adjusting
[12:37] TIGGS Beaumont: LOL wow, um wait a compliment?
[12:37] TIGGS Beaumont: hehe
[12:37] Jeff Hall: this is how u learn
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: but easy install has not even been on opensim core agenda yes
[12:37] Snoots Dwagon: I'm not talking about OSgrid. Am talking about setting up a server. I shoulda been able to do that in 30 minutes or less. Instead it took a tech friend 2 DAYS....
[12:37] Snoots Dwagon: So something is wrong there
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: ( and still isn't :) )
[12:37] dan banner: you picked the wrong friend ;p
[12:38] Foxx Bode: yeah, now he knows how to do it, should take less than 10 mins
[12:38] KentDavis Edman: hehe
[12:38] Snoots Dwagon: Nopes. This person has set up server after server on opensim
[12:38] Snoots Dwagon: Which is the point
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: snoots took me 2 days to install debian
[12:38] dan banner: but 2 days for first attempt isnt that bad
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: and still broken :p
[12:38] Jeff Hall: we are going into limbos now...:)
[12:38] dan banner: lol
[12:38] Snoots Dwagon: Yeah but Dan... 2 days for the first attempt-- will never make Opensim mainstream and widely accepted, nor even accepted widely by the virtual community.
[12:38] dan banner: well ets wrap up officially
[12:38] Snoots Dwagon: KK
[12:39] dan banner: we free to stay and chat
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: Snnots opensim also needs users
[12:39] sarah kline is Offline
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: not all need to run a region
[12:39] Snoots Dwagon: OSgrid needs users. Opensim needs servers. :D
[12:39] TIGGS Beaumont: Thank you Dan
[12:39] KentDavis Edman: I did ask about Mac with OpenSIM install since for 1 year and I was wait long time.
[12:39] TIGGS Beaumont: Thank you Albertir
[12:39] Snoots Dwagon: A person can USE opensim and never touch the program itself.
[12:39] TIGGS Beaumont: Ubit Snoots, Foxx and all Thank you
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: opensim is also about users, servers are just means
[12:40] dan banner: kent: any linux tutorial for setting up opensim is the same for mac
[12:40] Snoots Dwagon: Was a nice chat
[12:40] TIGGS Beaumont: is nice to learn a bit here and there
[12:40] Ubit Umarov: users are what matters
[12:40] Jeff Hall: i agree with Snoot on that: user experience i more and more important and now many people want to have instal and upgrades as fast as using a smartphone
[12:40] dan banner: kent install mono 5.14 and put osgrid binary in a folder
[12:40] Ubit Umarov: make then crash.. have avatars destroyed by bugs.. thats the fun part
[12:40] dan banner: run it
[12:40] Ubit Umarov: err Oooops
[12:40] Jeff Hall: while we cant do that we can improve
[12:40] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:40] KentDavis Edman: Dan I am tell you. I did look there make me confused. I am goal how to step by step within Mac not Windows.
[12:40] TIGGS Beaumont: <--aughing
[12:41] Snoots Dwagon: I am with Kent.
[12:41] KentDavis Edman: Sure Snoots
[12:41] Snoots Dwagon: I read the Opensim instructoin pages top to bottom, several times
[12:41] Snoots Dwagon: Lots and lots
[12:41] TIGGS Beaumont: <-is happily confused
[12:41] Snoots Dwagon: Tried to install Opensim for a week before going to someone for help
[12:41] KentDavis Edman: yes Snoots
[12:41] TIGGS Beaumont: ya see Snoots there's your problem cutie
[12:41] TIGGS Beaumont: you want it all right now
[12:41] dan banner: haha
[12:41] Jeff Hall: it is most likely cos of ports Snoot?
[12:42] TIGGS Beaumont: instead of page by page
[12:42] Snoots Dwagon: And no ego here: if I as a retired consultant couldn't figure it out, your everyday person won't be able to by a long shot.
[12:42] TIGGS Beaumont: hehe
[12:42] TIGGS Beaumont: okay Snoots, here and now
[12:42] Snoots Dwagon: Like kent says... needs better step-by-step instructions
[12:42] KentDavis Edman: I agree with you Snoots. that why I read make me confused on link.
[12:42] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: what is ver #
[12:42] TIGGS Beaumont: in two weeks I will have a racetrack up 4 weeks and a grand opening
[12:42] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: ARCHIVER]: Loading OAR with version 0.8
[12:42] dan banner: i dont have a mac to make a tutorial on
[12:43] KentDavis Edman: [12:42:33] Snoots Dwagon: Like kent says... needs better step-by-step instructions

Yes exactly what I say
[12:43] Snoots Dwagon: Good qustion Moto: Dan, which Opensim version do we need to install now?
[12:43] dan banner: 0.9.1 is latest
[12:43] Ubit Umarov: to use here, use osgrid bins
[12:43] KentDavis Edman: yes dan 0.9.1 is latest
[12:43] Snoots Dwagon: Uhhhhh LOL. Problem solved. T hat's the one I'm already using. :D (I think)
[12:43] dan banner: moto displaying an oar version
[12:44] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: this is oar made on 8.2.1
[12:44] Ubit Umarov: errrr 0.91 is a changing target :p
[12:44] Snoots Dwagon: I'll hve to double check and see
[12:44] Snoots Dwagon: Ubit, you mean there are different versions of 9.1?
[12:44] Snoots Dwagon: So get the latest?
[12:44] Ubit Umarov: of course its a Dev version :)
[12:44] Snoots Dwagon chuckles
[12:45] Snoots Dwagon: Okay, I'll check with my supertech and figure it out. :D
[12:45] Ubit Umarov: on osgrid site you need to look also to commit number or date
[12:45] Snoots Dwagon: Thank goodness for friends. :D
[12:45] Wizard Atazoth: https://www.osgrid.org/download.php
[12:45] Snoots Dwagon: Thanks Wiz
[12:45] dan banner: snoots i make it as simple as i can theres a binary preconfigured on our website
[12:45] Jeff Hall: the challenge for making an updater: checking ports, loopback and updating ini files
[12:45] Jeff Hall: big challenge
[12:45] Snoots Dwagon: Oh??? Awesome
[12:46] Ubit Umarov: see region info there.. that 23... is commit number
[12:46] Snoots Dwagon: Got a link Dan?
[12:46] KentDavis Edman: Wizard, this link make me confused
[12:46] dan banner: [12:45] Wizard Atazoth: https://www.osgrid.org/download.php
[12:46] dan banner: first link
[12:46] Snoots Dwagon: Okay good
[12:46] KentDavis Edman: first link ok.
[12:47] Snoots Dwagon: Okay downloaded
[12:47] KentDavis Edman: There just download but did not say step by step how to install within Mac
[12:47] Snoots Dwagon: So I will unzip that, say abracadabra and... ;D
[12:47] Ubit Umarov: and crash :p
[12:47] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:47] dan banner: snoots: your friend should be able to help faster now
[12:48] Ubit Umarov: you need to set externalip, region port etc :)
[12:48] Snoots Dwagon: Thanks Dan!
[12:48] Ubit Umarov: then router
[12:48] Snoots Dwagon: Right
[12:48] Ubit Umarov: wel region name, location blabla
[12:48] KentDavis Edman: I am deaf use sign language and I have low vision.
[12:48] dan banner: thats all in regions.ini if you have a sim running
[12:48] Snoots Dwagon: I learned how to set up the router. First... pass kidney stone... second...
[12:49] Snoots Dwagon: Does it use the same regions.ini or a new one?
[12:49] Ubit Umarov: regions.ini is a relative safe file to copy from older 0.9 versions
[12:49] Snoots Dwagon: Awesome. so I just install the new softwre, copy in regions.ini and good to go?
[12:49] dan banner: snoots: if your current opensim is in /home/snoots/opensim/bin
[12:50] dan banner: make a new folder
[12:50] dan banner: like /home/snoots/opensim/bin2
[12:50] dan banner: extract the new zip to bin2
[12:50] Jeff Hall: and update ini seiitjngs
[12:50] dan banner: copy over the Regions.ini from bin to bin2
[12:50] Ubit Umarov: or /home/ConfusedSnoots/...
[12:51] dan banner: copy over your database settings (or file if you using sqlite)
[12:51] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:51] dan banner: run it
[12:51] KentDavis Edman: /home/ConfusedSnoots/.. that is different tha Mac
[12:51] KentDavis Edman: than **
[12:51] Snoots Dwagon: That is something else I wanna do... put in a better database engine
[12:51] Snoots Dwagon: We'll do that later today
[12:51] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: wil see if the oar rezes right
[12:52] dan banner: kent path is relative
[12:52] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: last time half was missing
[12:52] dan banner: doesnt have to be in any certain place
[12:52] Snoots Dwagon: I like Ubits idea of using path c:\SnootsIsConfused\
[12:52] Snoots Dwagon: mwahahahahahaha...
[12:52] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:52] Snoots Dwagon: We'll get figured out.
[12:53] dan banner: c:\confused_af
[12:53] KentDavis Edman: yes that c:\SnootsIsConfused\ is different than mac
[12:53] Snoots Dwagon: But would be nice if brand new, on-tech users could figure it out too. : )
[12:53] Snoots Dwagon: *non-tech
[12:53] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: change path cd c:\SnootsIsConfused\
[12:53] KentDavis Edman: No.
[12:53] Snoots Dwagon: LOL
[12:53] KentDavis Edman: volumes/...
[12:53] KentDavis Edman: that kind mac
[12:53] Snoots Dwagon: Then I will create second region: c:\TiggsWasHere
[12:54] Snoots Dwagon: That will be for the potentially explosive tests
[12:54] dan banner: kent whatever path to your home folder is will work fine
[12:54] TIGGS Beaumont: LOL
[12:54] KentDavis Edman: Ok.
[12:54] TIGGS Beaumont: I like that Snoots
[12:54] Snoots Dwagon: :D
[12:54] KentDavis Edman: Would any one can make notecard step by step only focus for Mac because of Terminal.app
[12:55] Snoots Dwagon: I *will* say, positively, that after 10 weeks we *have* got ElvenSong up and running, and pretty well. So am pleased at that
[12:55] Snoots Dwagon: A lot of that was Inworldz issues. Those OAR files sukt
[12:55] Snoots Dwagon: That wasn't Opensim's doing
[12:56] Snoots Dwagon: Opensim only took a few days
[12:56] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: does take a long time to upload oar
[12:56] Ubit Umarov: guess inwordz never cared about oar saves
[12:56] Snoots Dwagon: Yeah, takes me about 15 minutes
[12:56] Ubit Umarov: only imports
[12:56] Ubit Umarov: at most
[12:56] TIGGS Beaumont: snoots wow, you received your OARS?
[12:56] Ubit Umarov: but just guessing.
[12:56] Garry Beaumont: https://osgrid/region/ElvenSong/384/896/2
[12:56] Snoots Dwagon: yes Tiggs. It toook a whole lotta big-weepy-eyes begging, but I got my OAR files
[12:56] TIGGS Beaumont: Elvensong was always beautiful
[12:56] Snoots Dwagon: But they were in TERRIBLE shape
[12:56] Ubit Umarov: some of their oar code was opensim 0.6
[12:56] Snoots Dwagon: Ty Ty!
[12:57] Snoots Dwagon: I also have Replicant City in high sky. :D
[12:57] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: shoot
[12:57] Snoots Dwagon: Which is awesomesauce cos I luvs Repicant City
[12:57] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: 15:45:02 - [LLUDPSERVER]: Packet exceeded buffer size! This could be an indicati
on of packet assembly not obeying the MTU. Type=LayerData, DataLength=1440, Buff
erLength=1440
[12:57] TIGGS Beaumont: okay I actually never visited Replicant
[12:57] KentDavis Edman: Link not work
[12:57] Jamie McGuire: So glad your here Snoots. I miss Elf Clan.
[12:57] Al Paca: moto: ignore it
[12:57] Snoots Dwagon: I really love error codes like that
[12:57] TIGGS Beaumont: but have fond memories of Schlitzie and the gands hehe
[12:57] Snoots Dwagon: They just make my fleepin day. :D
[12:57] TIGGS Beaumont: gangs
[12:57] Al Paca: 1440 is 1440
[12:58] Snoots Dwagon: Yeah Tiggs, I miss Schlitzie and Zekeen
[12:58] Al Paca: it shouldnt even be tossing that error
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: yes
[12:58] Al Paca: it can safely be ignored
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: the PUB the fortress the duouts
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: my dang shhoulder ride
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: hehe
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: my lil orc
[12:58] Snoots Dwagon: Al, I think "tossing that error" is an accurate description. :D
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: heh
[12:58] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: you would think if picking large size the would have incressed the packert size
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: okay onwards and upwards
[12:58] Snoots Dwagon: We got the pub Tiggs, and even better. :D
[12:58] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: sighs
[12:58] TIGGS Beaumont: I want to thank all, I have actually absorbed a bit of knowledge here
[12:59] TIGGS Beaumont: Snoots same ione?
[12:59] TIGGS Beaumont: one?
[12:59] Snoots Dwagon: You mean the difference between OS and OSG Tiggs? *snickers*
[12:59] Snoots Dwagon: BAD DWAGON!
[12:59] Al Paca: moto: its meaningless logging, just ignore it
[12:59] Snoots Dwagon: Hi da MayLee
[12:59] Snoots Dwagon: Luvs the hat
[12:59] TIGGS Beaumont: *kicks the farh out of the lil rat in disguise as dwaggie
[12:59] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: var
[12:59] TIGGS Beaumont: Maylee hey hey
[13:00] Snoots Dwagon: Actualy MayLee likes teh whole avatar. Nice look. ;D
[13:00] Snoots Dwagon: Unusual and interesting
[13:00] Jeff Hall: hey may
[13:00] Snoots Dwagon: LOL Tiggs
[13:00] Snoots Dwagon: Okay thank you all for chat and answering questions. Was very kind of you all.
[13:00] mayLee Jun: howdy, I'm late
[13:00] Snoots Dwagon: Nice to meet new friends, gotta run.
[13:01] dan banner: okay folks have fun, i need to run
[13:01] Snoots Dwagon: Bye bye!
[13:01] paela argus is Offline
[13:01] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: i dont have any friends list
[13:01] Foxx Bode: *-* ByE *-*
[13:01] Jeff Hall: byr Snoot
[13:01] Snoots Dwagon: Oh and Tiggs, you said you kicked da dwagon fart outta me? You said that, right?
[13:01] TIGGS Beaumont: Snoots be well
[13:01] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: thank you dan
[13:01] George Equus: Bye. Me too. cu all on the grid.
[13:01] TIGGS Beaumont: take care out there
[13:01] TIGGS Beaumont: George *waves :-)
[13:01] Snoots Dwagon: *poof*
[13:01] Foxx Bode: *-* ByE *-*
[13:01] Snoots sneezes...:
[13:02] TIGGS Beaumont: well in so many words yes Snoots heh
[13:02] George Equus: me poof
[13:02] TIGGS Beaumont: OG
[13:02] dan banner is Offline
[13:02] stiofain mactomais: bye folks
[13:02] Foxx Bode: *-* ByE *-*
[13:02] mayLee Jun: nice sneeze
[13:02] TIGGS Beaumont: Stiofan *waves
[13:03] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: wizz no bouancing on the land now
[13:03] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: yaa
[13:03] KentDavis Edman: https://gyazo.com/2c3cfd9bec60fd1ddef45e2b976c16aa
[13:03] KentDavis Edman: I show you picture. gray text that mean hidden folder
[13:04] Wizard Atazoth: great moto
[13:04] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: that was strange efore
[13:04] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: never got that cleared
[13:04] Jamie McGuire: Bye
[13:05] KentDavis Edman: That why OpenSIM on windows explain make me confused.
[13:05] mayLee Jun: ?
[13:05] stiofain mactomais is Offline
[13:05] KentDavis Edman: I am focus step by step explain OpenSIM within Mac
[13:06] Jeff Hall: going to upgrade server so ty and have fun everyone:)
[13:06] Ubit Umarov: guess it is similar to linxu
[13:06] Ubit Umarov: but never had a mac :)
[13:06] KentDavis Edman: You know what is Terminal.app?
[13:06] Ubit Umarov: no
[13:07] KentDavis Edman: Ok
[13:07] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: this does look better now
[13:07] Jeff Hall: have a nice saturday everyone
[13:07] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: land textures are correct and no white outs in ocean
[13:08] mayLee Jun: best not to run chrome at same time as opensim
[13:08] Ubit Umarov: excessive bandwith on viewer udp may cause issues like that MrMoto.sapa
[13:08] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: true new soft ware has better bandwidth
[13:09] Ubit Umarov: that is not a exact thing :)
[13:09] Wizard Atazoth: tc all ^_^
[13:09] Foxx Bode: *-* ByE *-*
[13:09] KentDavis Edman: Sigh
[13:09] KentDavis Edman: No one body help work on Mac
[13:10] Ubit Umarov: things are more complex that current marketing pub
[13:10] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: well udp is better not droping to 0 now
[13:10] mayLee Jun: opensim is just instructioins to meta
[13:10] Ubit Umarov: we don't have mac kentDavis so we can't help :(
[13:10] Ubit Umarov: off chat lag now
[13:10] Ubit Umarov: odd
[13:11] MrMoto.sapa @micachee.ddns.net:8002: well udp not droping to 0 now
[13:11] mayLee Jun: only difference mac or pc should only be meta
[13:11] Ubit Umarov: hmm
[13:11] Wizard Atazoth is Offline


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